Early Weekend Beyers

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The bottom line is that this surface has particularly destroyed the TC prep season. One, it has elevated mediocre turf horses and fooled some people into thinking they are talented dirt horses, two, it has hampered dirt horses from actually getting to showcase their true talents, and three it has made the process of analyzing these preps virtually impossible.

If you look at last year's Kentucky Derby, there were seven horses who won a race over synthetics and were largely considered synthetic horses. They finished 6th, 9th, 13th, 16th, 17th, 19th and 20th. Fairly interesting.

The lone exception would be Gayego, as he ran well on the dirt in the Arkansas Derby. On the flip side, Recapturetheglory lost his first two career races at Arlington (Polytrack) and then rattled off four good efforts in a row before running extremely well to finish fifth in the Derby itself.

It's a different surface, and should be treated as such.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

If you look at last year's Kentucky Derby, there were seven horses who won a race over synthetics and were largely considered synthetic horses. They finished 6th, 9th, 13th, 16th, 17th, 19th and 20th. Fairly interesting.

The lone exception would be Gayego, as he ran well on the dirt in the Arkansas Derby. On the flip side, Recapturetheglory lost his first two career races at Arlington (Polytrack) and then rattled off four good efforts in a row before running extremely well to finish fifth in the Derby itself.

It's a different surface, and should be treated as such.

Last year I don't think any of the synthetic horses were very good, to point out one of those horses did win the Travers (and suddenly got faster doing it).

[King Glorious]

I think it's pretty clear that turf horses can perform well on the synthetics. The BC should have ended that debate. But I feel like the mistake some people are making is assuming automatically that horses that perform on sythetics can't or won't be able to continue to do well on dirt. Last year alone, we saw:

-Zenyatta, Indian Blessing, Intangaroo, Cocoa Beach, Midnight Lute, Black Seventeen, Colonel John, Tiago

All of them were horses that showed they could win big races on both surfaces. Albertus Maximus just went to Florida and won the Donn. My point is that to say that you'll keep a reserved opinion on any horse that has yet to perform on dirt is completely logical. To say unequivically (sp) that one can't do it before they've even tried it is not logical.

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

But I feel like the mistake some people are making is assuming automatically that horses that perform on sythetics can't or won't be able to continue to do well on dirt. Last year alone, we saw:

-Zenyatta, Indian Blessing, Intangaroo, Cocoa Beach, Midnight Lute, Black Seventeen, Colonel John, Tiago

The only assumption is that those horses went synth-to-dirt. The problem is Indian Blessing, Cocoa Beach, Midnight Lute, Black Seventeen and Tiago all started their careers on dirt.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The only assumption is that those horses went synth-to-dirt. The problem is Indian Blessing, Cocoa Beach, Midnight Lute, Black Seventeen and Tiago all started their careers on dirt.

All of those horses, save Cocoa Beach, are good dirt horses that were ( are ) hampered by running on synthetic surfaces. Cocoa Beach was singularly unimpressive in winning the Beldame, and flourished on synthetics and turf in California, and don't even get me started on how crazy it is that Tiago continues to race out there. He won the Santa Anita Derby and Oaklawn Handicaps on dirt....yet flounders race after race on synthetics...and they keep running him out there. Mind boggling.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

All of those horses, save Cocoa Beach, are good dirt horses that were ( are ) hampered by running on synthetic surfaces. Cocoa Beach was singularly unimpressive in winning the Beldame, and flourished on synthetics and turf in California, and don't even get me started on how crazy it is that Tiago continues to race out there. He won the Santa Anita Derby and Oaklawn Handicaps on dirt....yet flounders race after race on synthetics...and they keep running him out there. Mind boggling.

makes you wonder how much more often tiago could/would win if he wasn't hampered by being owned by californians..

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

...and don't even get me started on how crazy it is that Tiago continues to race out there. He won the Santa Anita Derby and Oaklawn Handicaps on dirt....yet flounders race after race on synthetics...and they keep running him out there. Mind boggling.

ntamm1215 and I have been saying this for a while. Who would he have to beat to win the Stephen Foster, Suburban, Whitney etc? It's not a big list. This is the year to bring him East!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

The only assumption is that those horses went synth-to-dirt. The problem is Indian Blessing, Cocoa Beach, Midnight Lute, Black Seventeen and Tiago all started their careers on dirt.

They still performed on both surfaces. That they started on dirt and still were able to perform on a surface that favors grass horses only reinforces my belief that good horses can make the transition. Not all of them, of course, but it can be done and I think it's silly to automatically write off a horse as a grass runner when they haven't even been given a chance on dirt. Again, that's not the same as being wary of their chances or saying that you want them to prove it to you before you are a believer or not wanting to take them at short odds on dirt.