Mark Jackson and Van Gundy...

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That East /West thing rings hollow, it isn't as though they havent had talent surrounding Nash.

I just have always been amazed how a wave of consenus echos through sports when talking about things like MVP and such. That wave and a few stupid stats have made Nash into a legend and he hardly deserves that company. I just think that if he was black that Nash would be thought of along the lines of a Billups (who is a good player but no one is putting him on any alltime teams). He is a guy who was in the right place at the right time in the perfect system with the right parts. Having mobile big men like Marion, Stoudamire and even Diaw has helped him immensely and he can hit an open jumper. But I dont know that he is really a better point guard than Maurice Cheeks.

Chris Paul is already a better player than Nash at Nash's peak.

......how he has more m.v.p hardware than kobe is laughable......

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

......how he has more m.v.p hardware than kobe is laughable......

And as many as Shaq and Kobe combined.

Cannon, I think you are about 200% spot on in this one. Nash is a very good player but nowhere near the level that he has been put on. I can think of many point guards over the years that I would have taken over him, Mark Jackson being one of them.

It's funny reading how Iverson doesn't understand the team game and how he doesn't open up the floor for his teammates. I think he absolutely does. The thing is that he doesn't always pass to them when they are open. Iverson has an uncanny ability to score the basketball, one that has not been matched by many players in the history of the game. So often, his tough shot is a better option that passing out to a wide open Aaron McKie or Eric Snow. You watch Iverson play on all-star teams or in the Olympics where he doesn't have to score as much and you see that he can play very well with others. Of course he's still a scorer at heart but he can do it. People make too much of this whole thing about making your teammates better. They do it too much in Nash's favor just like they criticize Kobe and Iverson too much. Funny how Nash makes his teammates so much better yet has never gone to the finals with better teammates while Kobe and Iverson both went there with lesser ones. Helping your team win is far more important than making your teammates better and sometimes, the best way to help them win is by going for 50 or 60.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

And as many as Shaq and Kobe combined.

Cannon, I think you are about 200% spot on in this one. Nash is a very good player but nowhere near the level that he has been put on. I can think of many point guards over the years that I would have taken over him, Mark Jackson being one of them.

It's funny reading how Iverson doesn't understand the team game and how he doesn't open up the floor for his teammates. I think he absolutely does. The thing is that he doesn't always pass to them when they are open. Iverson has an uncanny ability to score the basketball, one that has not been matched by many players in the history of the game. So often, his tough shot is a better option that passing out to a wide open Aaron McKie or Eric Snow. You watch Iverson play on all-star teams or in the Olympics where he doesn't have to score as much and you see that he can play very well with others. Of course he's still a scorer at heart but he can do it. People make too much of this whole thing about making your teammates better. They do it too much in Nash's favor just like they criticize Kobe and Iverson too much. Funny how Nash makes his teammates so much better yet has never gone to the finals with better teammates while Kobe and Iverson both went there with lesser ones. Helping your team win is far more important than making your teammates better and sometimes, the best way to help them win is by going for 50 or 60.

No they dont say it enough.
Tim Duncan does the same thing for the Spurs
at Center/PF. Do you really think Tony Parker
would have an open lane to the rim and shoot over
50% going on the 3rd season in a row without Duncan?
There are so many more examples.

Dont put these guys in the same sentence.
Kobe can and will play defense.

Why was Iverson absent from the latest Olympic team?
The one that actually got the Gold. Jason KIdd made that team.
And KIdd cant even get close to moving like he used to.

Lets hear exactly what Iverson has done for the PIstons...
Besides his best to bring them down to a .500 team.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by pgardn

No they dont say it enough.
Tim Duncan does the same thing for the Spurs
at Center/PF. Do you really think Tony Parker
would have an open lane to the rim and shoot over
50% going on the 3rd season in a row without Duncan?
There are so many more examples.

Dont put these guys in the same sentence.
Kobe can and will play defense.

Why was Iverson absent from the latest Olympic team?
The one that actually got the Gold. Jason KIdd made that team.
And KIdd cant even get close to moving like he used to.

Lets hear exactly what Iverson has done for the PIstons...
Besides his best to bring them down to a .500 team.

Of course it's important to make your teammates better. But it's not always the most important thing in the game. As I said, it's more important to make your team win than it is to make your team better and sometimes, with a guy like Kobe or Iverson, it's more important to go for 50 or 60 than it is to share the ball and get everyone involved. And again, Iverson and Kobe both have led lesser teams to the Finals than Nash, who has never gotten there.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Of course it's important to make your teammates better. But it's not always the most important thing in the game. As I said, it's more important to make your team win than it is to make your team better and sometimes, with a guy like Kobe or Iverson, it's more important to go for 50 or 60 than it is to share the ball and get everyone involved. And again, Iverson and Kobe both have led lesser teams to the Finals than Nash, who has never gotten there.

Win what games?

And again,
Iverson would have never made it to the finals either
had his team played the Spurs which Nash ran into 3 times.
No way those Sixers teams beat the Spurs teams Nash lost to.
NO WAY.

Originally Posted by alysheba4

......how he has more m.v.p hardware than kobe is laughable......

The years that Nash won it.
Who would you have given it to?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The years that Nash won it.
Who would you have given it to?

Shaq the first year, LeBron James the second. Not even close.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Shaq the first year, LeBron James the second. Not even close.

BS.
Not for the regular season.

Originally Posted by alysheba4

......how he has more m.v.p hardware than kobe is laughable......

Now it is.
At the time, no one brought it up.
The were griping how Kobe should have won
it during the Shaq years.

You guys have forgot one huge thing.
Think about WHEN the MVP votes come in.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Now it is.
At the time, no one brought it up.
The were griping how Kobe should have won
it during the Shaq years.

You guys have forgot one huge thing.
Think about WHEN the MVP votes come in.

Are you serious? There was a huge debate about it, especially the first year when Shaq didn't win it. In fact, Nash's 34 point win was the closest vote since the 96-97 season when Malone beat out Jordan by 31 points.

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Are you serious? There was a huge debate about it, especially the first year when Shaq didn't win it. In fact, Nash's 34 point win was the closest vote since the 96-97 season when Malone beat out Jordan by 31 points.

What was the vote the other year?

And the MVP is decided before the NBA champion is determined so
basically it is a regular season award. To say Nash was underserving
is fine. But to say Shaq gets it because the Lakers won the championship
is not following how the MVP is determined. imo its a silly award anyway.

The point that was made by Marc Jackson that started the thread
was that Iverson's offensive dribbling around like Nash has some sort
of cohesive effect offensively just like Nash.

And that is just total BS.