Andy Beyer, Dutrow, DRF

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Kasept

Impossible to tell about the specific horses mentioned. Certainly a strong likelihood for the North American based ones though... Are you saying you think that list of North American trainers above weren't using steroids while they were legal? Or continue to use other legal pertinent performance maximization products? Because they did and do.

The funny and impossible thing about this discussion is that it is all based on perception of who people want to believe are 'good' or bad' guys when specific names come up based on 'public' information which CANNOT POSSIBLY TELL THE WHOLE STORY. There are a number of guys that I 'know' are probably taking advantages and their names haven't come up in any of these conversations. Those names don't come up because of the public's desire to believe said or certain individuals are good trainers and good guys. Here's a bulletin... Some are and some aren't. Some of them cheat as much or more as the guys that have made themselves poster boys by their own practices.

Everyone's minds are largely made up on this subject and there is little apparently anyone is going to say or present as evidence to change either side's mind

With all due respect, I don't agree. Discussion can't hurt.

[Kasept]

Originally Posted by justindew

With all due respect, I don't agree. Discussion can't hurt.

No.. Of course it can't hurt. But you can see readily that there are no allegiances being switched by the debate.

[Bigsmc]

Originally Posted by Kasept

No.. Of course it can't hurt. But you can see readily that there are no allegiances being switched by the debate.

No allegiances of the active posters in this thread are being switched, but there are a lot of people reading this thread (and not posting) that may be swayed one way or another by reading the 'discussion'.

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by Bigsmc

No allegiances of the active posters in this thread are being switched, but there are a lot of people reading this thread (and not posting) that may be swayed one way or another by reading the 'discussion'.

Ditto

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Of course a vet is going to blindly defend trainers. Because really, it's as much the vet cheating as the trainer. And people that have friendships with trainers are going to defend their friends. i get that and it's noble to defend your friends. But when someone's sole defense of someone is that they are a nice guy, come on. none of us will probably ever know for sure what is going on. because in my opinion the tests are a joke. It's all speculation, but it's hard to digest some of these miraculous turnarounds.

I'm a vet, I don't cheat, I'll defend trainers I know, and your implication that if I defend a trainer it means I'm a cheat is moronic bullshiat.