Andy Beyer, Dutrow, DRF

[pweizer]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Well, first you said Wolfson never had numbers like the other guys beyer mentioned. That claim was proven incorrect. And surprisingly you failed to address it. Now, because Wolfson is a nice guy, he gets an exemption. I love it.

I don't get into pissing matches on the internet. They can't be won. People can say whatever they want about others they have never met. You apparently know him far better than I do.

Paul

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by pweizer

I don't get into pissing matches on the internet. They can't be won. People can say whatever they want about others they have never met. You apparently know him far better than I do.

Paul

You don't want to get into a pissing match, which I understand, but actually you are the only one in this thread that made unfair accusations. Don't you feel a need to answer to that?

[Scav]

Man oh man. Gotta love a 'drugs' conversation. Want to get a message board going, talk about drugs, jockeys, hilarious announcers, or bs horses.

The only people that know what is going on are the people themselves, and the people that possibly may be helping them. All of this is obvious statistical speculation, which can be considered strong. Personally I can only go off what I hear, my opinion is almost worthless when it comes to this topic.

I will say that the move ups of both MA and Its a Bird are quite interesting. Its a Bird couldn't win a race at Arlington Park last year and now he is winning 500k races. I don't know what he is doing, but whatever he is doing, it works.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Scav

M Its a Bird couldn't win a race at Arlington Park last year and now he is winning 500k races. I don't know what he is doing, but whatever he is doing, it works.

Now that one isn't hard: hates Poly. Don't let the purse fool you: this race is a gift to Florida/Cal breeders and the people who buy them and could have been run for a fifth of the purse and attracted the same horses.

With MA, maybe Wolfson fixed the horse's feet (there are a lot of farriers who still cut toe-long, heel-short), or his teeth, or his stomach (undiagnosed ulcers) or his brain. Maybe the horse needed more conditioning between races, or less. There are so many things that can effect a horse's performance that aren't drugs that it can be hard to disentangle the effects.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Now that one isn't hard: hates Poly.

Funny - he seemed to hate all surfaces for Pletcher. Especially dirt. Heck, when Larry Pilloti trained him, he got beat in a lifetime condition claiming race on dirt.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Funny - he seemed to hate all surfaces for Pletcher. Especially dirt. Heck, when Larry Pilloti trained him, he got beat in a lifetime condition claiming race on dirt.

I wasn't even going to respond to her ridiculousness.

[sumitas]

I can't imagine Pletcher not knowing surfaces . The man is a great trainer .

[Riot]

This thread is exactly why all pre- and post-race testing, and the RMTC, should be eliminated.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Good idea. Let's just put our collective heads in the sand and accept that the same few guys seem to perform miracle after miracle. because I'm sure these miracle workers aren't smart enough to figure out how to get by the tests.

Gamblers know who the cheaters are, and gamblers know the testing is an expensive waste of time that doesn't catch them.

[justindew]

Originally Posted by Riot

Gamblers know who the cheaters are, and gamblers know the testing is an expensive waste of time that doesn't catch them.

Wow.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Riot

Gamblers know who the cheaters are, and gamblers know the testing is an expensive waste of time that doesn't catch them.

OMG Beth, this is wrong on so many levels.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Scav

OMG Beth, this is wrong on so many levels.

Ya think?

I like to see testing results to see who is cheating. Others don't need them.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Riot

Ya think?

I like to see testing results to see who is cheating. Others don't need them.

Your constantly referring to horseplayers as gamblers would be insulting if we didn't consider the source. I understand it somehow justifies your lack of involvement in this game to make that theoretically insulting reference, as somehow it places you above others, when in fact all it does is expose you as being petty.

However, having said that, you also demean yourself further by failing to recognize that a serious student of this game can identify when horses perform in extraordinary and, at least somewhat, inexplicable ways. Now, all of us also know that many things are possible, and hardly cry foul every time a horse runs out of its skin, however, when we see the same trainers ( and, no, I'm not naming names ) doing it repeatedly, with different horses, we see a pattern and are hardly jumping to any conclusions to be suspicious.

Believe it or not, many of us also benefit financially in these situations, however that doesn't stop us from also being suspicious. In fact, it are those very suspicions that lead us to these sometimes scores. Sorry to inform you, but it's not all sour grapes by losing horseplayers, but quite often cries for reform in an industry that we love, devote a great deal of our lives to, and support financially. I realize these are not concerns of yours, and that is fine, but do yourself a favor and stop lowering yourself to a level of insulting those of us that do.

[Mike2456]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Your constantly referring to horseplayers as gamblers would be insulting if we didn't consider the source. I understand it somehow justifies your lack of involvement in this game to make that theoretically insulting reference, as somehow it places you above others, when in fact all it does is expose you as being petty.

However, having said that, you also demean yourself further by failing to recognize that a serious student of this game can identify when horses perform in extraordinary and, at least somewhat, inexplicable ways. Now, all of us also know that many things are possible, and hardly cry foul every time a horse runs out of its skin, however, when we see the same trainers ( and, no, I'm not naming names ) doing it repeatedly, with different horses, we see a pattern and are hardly jumping to any conclusions to be suspicious.

Believe it or not, many of us also benefit financially in these situations, however that doesn't stop us from also being suspicious. In fact, it are those very suspicions that lead us to these sometimes scores. Sorry to inform you, but it's not all sour grapes by losing horseplayers, but quite often cries for reform in an industry that we love, devote a great deal of our lives to, and support financially. I realize these are not concerns of yours, and that is fine, but do yourself a favor and stop lowering yourself to a level of insulting those of us that do.

Your ignorance is showing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Riot

Gamblers know who the cheaters are, and gamblers know the testing is an expensive waste of time that doesn't catch them.

You may actually be part right

[CSC]

Reality today is any horse that runs a big figure is going to be under a certain amount of suspicion was he juiced or not. Is it fair to paint all horses under the same umbrella? Probably not, but it is what it is, the same can be said for baseball, track & field, extreme fighting. The problem is not restricted to horseracing. My displeasure is with certain trainers that lash out when let's face it any horseplayer worth his or her salt knows they have cheated and are probably still cheating.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

off topic, but I just noticed your signature. Pretty ironic, especially now.

Always nice to pay homage to such a stand up guy.