Dick Jauron/Turk Schonert/Jets/Dolphins playalong thread

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

That would be cap destruction though phil. Even if the pats thought Casell was worth it, they cant afford to pay a backup QB starter money and starter money is what Casell will get from any other team. They would have no choice but to let him walk.

Casell leaving is a foregone conclusion if there is any interest and it appears there will be...regardless of how misguided that interest may be.

Cant they just franchise him and take a one year hit? I dont know why everyone is so down on Cassell. He may not be Brady but lets give the guy some credit considering he had to basically learn on the job in a very tough situation with almost no experience to fall back on. He played pretty well and will likely still get better.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Cant they just franchise him and take a one year hit? I dont know why everyone is so down on Cassell. He may not be Brady but lets give the guy some credit considering he had to basically learn on the job in a very tough situation with almost no experience to fall back on. He played pretty well and will likely still get better.

I'm not as down on him as Joey is but I don't see him as the savior. He's got tools and brains which helps a lot but it'll be a huge shock going from Moss/Welker to average receivers for the Jets.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

I'm not as down on him as Joey is but I don't see him as the savior. He's got tools and brains which helps a lot but it'll be a huge shock going from Moss/Welker to average receivers for the Jets.

I dont buy the Moss/Welker arguement. They had no consistent running game all year. Welker is a good player but hardly a difference maker. He is an excellent slot receiver who gets matched up against the other teams third best corner or a safety. Moss had 11 catches the last 4 games. Cassell was certainly a better QB as the season went on and saying he is garbage is ridiclous. He may not be Johnny U but he is better than what the 49ers, Bears, Vikings, Chiefs, Bucs, Rams, Bills, Browns, Raiders, Redskins or Lions run out there and he is proven to be a lot better than Clemmons. I have no idea how good Ratliff is but the fact no one bothered to draft him gives me an idea. The thing is there are only a few really top QB's and guys like cassell who can run an offense, manage a game and not make mistakes are valauble guys.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont buy the Moss/Welker arguement. They had no consistent running game all year. Welker is a good player but hardly a difference maker. He is an excellent slot receiver who gets matched up against the other teams third best corner or a safety. Moss had 11 catches the last 4 games. Cassell was certainly a better QB as the season went on and saying he is garbage is ridiclous. He may not be Johnny U but he is better than what the 49ers, Bears, Vikings, Chiefs, Bucs, Rams, Bills, Browns, Raiders, Redskins or Lions run out there and he is proven to be a lot better than Clemmons. I have no idea how good Ratliff is but the fact no one bothered to draft him gives me an idea. The thing is there are only a few really top QB's and guys like cassell who can run an offense, manage a game and not make mistakes are valauble guys.

He isnt better than Jeff Garcia. He isnt better than Trent Edwards. He isnt better than Jason Campbell. He is not better than Marc Bulger. He isnt any better than Shaun Hill or Tyler Thigpen.

He has more talent around him than all those guys and he played a much easier schedule.

Game managers are a dime a dozen in the NFL. The problem is that most teams arent good enough running or defensively to win with a game manager. Thats when the expectations change. Thats when coaches get fired.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

He isnt better than Jeff Garcia. He isnt better than Trent Edwards. He isnt better than Jason Campbell. He is not better than Marc Bulger. He isnt any better than Shaun Hill or Tyler Thigpen.

He has more talent around him than all those guys and he played a much easier schedule.

Game managers are a dime a dozen in the NFL. The problem is that most teams arent good enough running or defensively to win with a game manager. Thats when the expectations change. Thats when coaches get fired.

He is better than Jeff Garcia 2008 version, he is as good as Trent Edwards and is better than Hill or Thigpen. Campbell stinks, cassell is way better than he is. Maybe you are forgetting that this guy NEVER played in college or the pros because of who he was playing behind. His season considering that fact alone shows his ability, period. Game managers are a dime a dozen? What league do you watch? He played an easier schedule? I understand that he is not a great QB but he played far better than average this season in his first game action ever. He is already pretty good and will get better. Jeff Garcia? Done. Tyler Thigpen? Huh? jason Campbell? Terrible decision maker. Wow.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is better than Jeff Garcia 2008 version, he is as good as Trent Edwards and is better than Hill or Thigpen. Campbell stinks, cassell is way better than he is. Maybe you are forgetting that this guy NEVER played in college or the pros because of who he was playing behind. His season considering that fact alone shows his ability, period. Game managers are a dime a dozen? What league do you watch? He played an easier schedule? I understand that he is not a great QB but he played far better than average this season in his first game action ever. He is already pretty good and will get better. Jeff Garcia? Done. Tyler Thigpen? Huh? jason Campbell? Terrible decision maker. Wow.

You put Jason Campbell behind that line with those receievers in that system and you tell me who would be better. You put any of those guys named in that situation and you tell me who would be better.

Its not just Welker and moss- Its the line and the system as well.

You dismiss Shaun HIll. What kind of line was Shaun Hill playing behind? Who did he have to throw it to?

Game Managers are a dime a dozen. The only thing is that the game managers need a solid team around them to be successful. Hence...game managers. What is Kerry Collins? What is Chad Pennington? Gus Frerotte? Those guys arent really asked to make plays but yet their teams are in the playoffs.

Cassell, at best, is in the bottom third of the league...At best.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

You put Jason Campbell behind that line with those receievers in that system and you tell me who would be better. You put any of those guys named in that situation and you tell me who would be better.

Its not just Welker and moss- Its the line and the system as well.

You dismiss Shaun HIll. What kind of line was Shaun Hill playing behind? Who did he have to throw it to?

Game Managers are a dime a dozen. The only thing is that the game managers need a solid team around them to be successful. Hence...game managers. What is Kerry Collins? What is Chad Pennington? Gus Frerotte? Those guys arent really asked to make plays but yet their teams are in the playoffs.

Cassell, at best, is in the bottom third of the league...At best.

Interesting that you can make this statement that he is in the bottom 1/3rd of the league based upon an 90 QB rating in his only body of work that you or anyone else has ever seen. The guy who was named AFC offensive player of the week twice this year. You make it out like the offensive line makes the decisions with the ball. Cassell was sacked 47 times and SF gave up 55, not much of a margin considering how great NE's line supposedly is. Shaun Hill is and never has shown much, he isnt a rookie. Beating the Rams and a lame duck Skins team doesnt mean he is any good. Jason Campbell has always been a bad decision maker. Game managers are hardly a dime a dozen or guys like Collins wouldnt still be in the league and Vinny Testaverde wouldnt get a call every year. Pennington is the same guy who supposedly cant make the throws yet Miami hasnt been able to find a game manager for years before him. Gus Ferotte? you are kidding right?

Regardless of what people think there has never been a situation like this guy was put in and he played really well. Maybe i'm wrong but everytime I saw the guy play, he played well which is more than I can say for the QB of the Jets. Way more NFL QB's lose games than win them.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont buy the Moss/Welker arguement. They had no consistent running game all year. Welker is a good player but hardly a difference maker. He is an excellent slot receiver who gets matched up against the other teams third best corner or a safety. Moss had 11 catches the last 4 games. Cassell was certainly a better QB as the season went on and saying he is garbage is ridiclous. He may not be Johnny U but he is better than what the 49ers, Bears, Vikings, Chiefs, Bucs, Rams, Bills, Browns, Raiders, Redskins or Lions run out there and he is proven to be a lot better than Clemmons. I have no idea how good Ratliff is but the fact no one bothered to draft him gives me an idea. The thing is there are only a few really top QB's and guys like cassell who can run an offense, manage a game and not make mistakes are valauble guys.

Disagree... I think Welker is very much a difference maker. I'd take him on my mythical team in a heartbeat.

Let me ask you this, phins fan- would you rather have Pennington or Cassell taking snaps for your team next year? For my money, it's Pennington in a heartbeat.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

Disagree... I think Welker is very much a difference maker. I'd take him on my mythical team in a heartbeat.

Let me ask you this, phins fan- would you rather have Pennington or Cassell taking snaps for your team next year? For my money, it's Pennington in a heartbeat.

Pennington but ask me that in a year I may have a different answer. Cassell had a better season than Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco who are far better comparisons. Welker is more of a product of the "system" than the QB. He is still mostly a slot receiver and was hardly a difference maker with Miami though they did screw up in letting him go.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Pennington but ask me that in a year I may have a different answer. Cassell had a better season than Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco who are far better comparisons. Welker is more of a product of the "system" than the QB. He is still mostly a slot receiver and was hardly a difference maker with Miami though they did screw up in letting him go.

Joe Flacco is and will be better than Matt Cassell. Cassell has been in the system for four years and he has had real game experience prior to this year. Flacco was throwing the ball to an 85 year old receiver and one of the ten guys named Mark Clayton that float around the NFL and he did it behind a line that wasnt nearly as good as New England's.

Did he have a better season than those guys? He is home and those guys are in the playoffs. How did he have a better season? Again, inject him into baltimore or atlanta and tell me what he would have done...even with his 4 year advantage in experience.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Joe Flacco is and will be better than Matt Cassell. Cassell has been in the system for four years and he has had real game experience prior to this year. Flacco was throwing the ball to an 85 year old receiver and one of the ten guys named Mark Clayton that float around the NFL and he did it behind a line that wasnt nearly as good as New England's.

Did he have a better season than those guys? He is home and those guys are in the playoffs. How did he have a better season? Again, inject him into baltimore or atlanta and tell me what he would have done...even with his 4 year advantage in experience.

Yeah he has an experience advantage.....holding clipboards. Flacco and Ryan did not have better seasons than Cassell. Making the playoffs may have a little more to do with the Ravens defense and Altantas division than the play of the QB's. Your arguemnets are actually getting more bizzare. Cassell has an experience edge with real game experience? Yeah those 60 passes the last 7 years were the perfect prep.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Cant they just franchise him and take a one year hit? I dont know why everyone is so down on Cassell. He may not be Brady but lets give the guy some credit considering he had to basically learn on the job in a very tough situation with almost no experience to fall back on. He played pretty well and will likely still get better.

They could franchise him. But that would be 12 million dollars for a backup QB. Thats 10% of your cap for a guy that you hope doesnt play. I highly doubt the Pats would do that unless they were pretty sure Brady wasnt going to be ready.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

They could franchise him. But that would be 12 million dollars for a backup QB. Thats 10% of your cap for a guy that you hope doesnt play. I highly doubt the Pats would do that unless they were pretty sure Brady wasnt going to be ready.

He is not a backup until Brady returns and has proven worth. If Brady makes it back they could trade him for a number one pick or package of picks as opposed to just letting him walk.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is not a backup until Brady returns and has proven worth. If Brady makes it back they could trade him for a number one pick or package of picks as opposed to just letting him walk.

Call him what you will but he isnt a 12 million dollar QB any way you slice it and there is no team in their right mind that is going to trade anywhere close to a number one pick for the right to pay him 12 million dollars next year.

I think the pats would realize that there are cheaper short term alternatives than to pay Cassell that kind of money.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Call him what you will but he isnt a 12 million dollar QB any way you slice it and there is no team in their right mind that is going to trade anywhere close to a number one pick for the right to pay him 12 million dollars next year.

I think the pats would realize that there are cheaper short term alternatives than to pay Cassell that kind of money.

We will see

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

We will see

LOL. i was just about to type the same thing. Swear.

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Cant they just franchise him and take a one year hit? I dont know why everyone is so down on Cassell. He may not be Brady but lets give the guy some credit considering he had to basically learn on the job in a very tough situation with almost no experience to fall back on. He played pretty well and will likely still get better.

Well...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3809444


29 mil of the salary cap will go to the two main QB's on that team. Not sure amazing is the word I'm looking for, but I'll use it.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by declansharbor

Well...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3809444


29 mil of the salary cap will go to the two main QB's on that team. Not sure amazing is the word I'm looking for, but I'll use it.

looks like i have some words to eat. Cannon and phl were right.

How about incredible Declan?

[declansharbor]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

looks like i have some words to eat. Cannon and phl were right.

How about incredible Declan?

I was with you on this one Dala. That's an AWFULLY high amount of $$ to be giving someone that will be riding pine. I guess they have it in mind that it's only for 1 year, and if Brady isn't fully recovered, (which history says he wont be) it's a justified move.

[Cannon Shell]

Look for Phil and I to replace Keyshawn and Emmitt next season on NFL countdown...