Horse of the Year?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Theatrical

Actually, I believe we could both be as you describe. Not a lot of objectivity, but for different reasons.
I realize Hystericalady favors dirt over any other surface. I know this. Her trainer knows this. Her owners know this. The gamblers know this. They still ran her on it. Analysis of races is great. However, sometimes one can get carried away by overthinking a particular race scenario to the point one's perspective is compromised by numbers, stats and what if's. This is a point where you and I differ greatly.

Put it another way. I don't think there is a chance in hell that Indian Blessing could beat Curlin in a 10f race with a full field of horses. But put them together at 6f in a four horse field and she is the lone speed and she'd crush him. An extreme example for sure but just bringing out the point that race analysis is very important. Plenty of times in racing, the result is not as clear cut as it may seem at first glance.

In this particular case, you seem to be taking the defensive, as if I'm saying that Hystericalady is a better horse than Zenyatta is when I'm clearly not saying that at all. But I've seen way too many situations where an inferior horse is allowed total control of a race and beats a superior one. I believe that had the Lady's Secret been on dirt, that would have been the case this year. It has nothing to do with how good I think Zenyatta is.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Put it another way. I don't think there is a chance in hell that Indian Blessing could beat Curlin in a 10f race with a full field of horses. But put them together at 6f in a four horse field and she is the lone speed and she'd crush him. An extreme example for sure but just bringing out the point that race analysis is very important. Plenty of times in racing, the result is not as clear cut as it may seem at first glance.

In this particular case, you seem to be taking the defensive, as if I'm saying that Hystericalady is a better horse than Zenyatta is when I'm clearly not saying that at all. But I've seen way too many situations where an inferior horse is allowed total control of a race and beats a superior one. I believe that had the Lady's Secret been on dirt, that would have been the case this year. It has nothing to do with how good I think Zenyatta is.

I guess what is the point, that a hypothetical exists that could have beat her, we could do that an infinite amount of times with races and horses?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I guess what is the point, that a hypothetical exists that could have beat her, we could do that an infinite amount of times with races and horses?

Of course we could but my response was only to the statement that you made that Hystericalady can't warm up Zenyatta on any surface. I took that to mean that under no hypotheticals would HL have a chance and I don't agree with that.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Of course we could but my response was only to the statement that you made that Hystericalady can't warm up Zenyatta on any surface. I took that to mean that under no hypotheticals would HL have a chance and I don't agree with that.

It would take a hell of lot more then a slow pace and dirt....

the best way to do it is to lay down real fractions and finish, say 22 45 109 and 134

Azeri could do that, HL could not.

[letswastemoney]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

It would take a hell of lot more then a slow pace and dirt....

the best way to do it is to lay down real fractions and finish, say 22 45 109 and 134

Azeri could do that, HL could not.

What? HL could very well set those kind of fractions, she has a G1 sprint race to her win column doesn't she? The Humana Distaff at Churchill.

They just never asked her to in a route race.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by letswastemoney

What? HL could very well set those kind of fractions, she has a G1 sprint race to her win column doesn't she? The Humana Distaff at Churchill.

They just never asked her to in a route race.

Yes, I am sure she can sprinting, or maybe at Deleware Park where lots of strange things go on

but now I have heard it all, HL in the same class on the front end as Azeri (my point on the speed it would take to beat Zen). How many championships did HL win, people think she was some super mare in this thread.

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Put it another way. I don't think there is a chance in hell that Indian Blessing could beat Curlin in a 10f race with a full field of horses. But put them together at 6f in a four horse field and she is the lone speed and she'd crush him. An extreme example for sure but just bringing out the point that race analysis is very important. Plenty of times in racing, the result is not as clear cut as it may seem at first glance.

In this particular case, you seem to be taking the defensive, as if I'm saying that Hystericalady is a better horse than Zenyatta is when I'm clearly not saying that at all. But I've seen way too many situations where an inferior horse is allowed total control of a race and beats a superior one. I believe that had the Lady's Secret been on dirt, that would have been the case this year. It has nothing to do with how good I think Zenyatta is.

There is nothing in this exchange that would put me on the defensive, KG. Simply a difference of opinion. If you wish to believe the results would have been different in the LS had it been run on dirt, please go ahead and indulge yourself. I think you are seriously underestimating how powerful Zenyatta is on the dirt. True, she's run on it once, but what a race that was. Lord have mercy. I don't doubt what you think of her, KG. We just see things differently. I'll just rock on in my non objective world where she is concerned and enjoy her.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Theatrical

There is nothing in this exchange that would put me on the defensive, KG. Simply a difference of opinion. If you wish to believe the results would have been different in the LS had it been run on dirt, please go ahead and indulge yourself. I think you are seriously underestimating how powerful Zenyatta is on the dirt. True, she's run on it once, but what a race that was. Lord have mercy. I don't doubt what you think of her, KG. We just see things differently. I'll just rock on in my non objective world where she is concerned and enjoy her.

Hardly. I think she is even better on dirt. That Apple Blossom was major. In a fairly run race on dirt, Zenyatta still beats Hystericalady. I don't doubt that for a second. But I also know that on dirt, HL doesn't stop like she does on sythetics and she's a top class mare that if allowed to get an easy lead through soft to moderate fractions, would be VERY hard to run down. It can be a dirt race with fair fractions or a pace battle and Zenyatta could probably beat HL by more than she did in the Lady's Secret. I'm only considering how that particular race played out though.

[Theatrical]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Hardly. I think she is even better on dirt. That Apple Blossom was major. In a fairly run race on dirt, Zenyatta still beats Hystericalady. I don't doubt that for a second. But I also know that on dirt, HL doesn't stop like she does on sythetics and she's a top class mare that if allowed to get an easy lead through soft to moderate fractions, would be VERY hard to run down. It can be a dirt race with fair fractions or a pace battle and Zenyatta could probably beat HL by more than she did in the Lady's Secret. I'm only considering how that particular race played out though.

Fair enough.