Pletcher BC positive; Hearing pending

[Riot]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Mepivacaine is a local anesthetic. While it has therapeutic uses as far as lameness diagnosis and minor surgery goes, it has no business being in a racehorse's system on raceday..

Mepivacaine is allowed to be in a horses system on race day.

Yes, nanograms matter.

There are dosages at which drugs can influence or affect performance, and dosages at which that is impossible. That is the whole point.

A drug positive is an actionable offense, indeed, but not all drug positives are proof of attempting to influence a horses performance.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Riot

Mepivacaine is allowed to be in a horses system on race day.

Yes, nanograms matter.

There are dosages at which drugs can influence or affect performance, and dosages at which that is impossible. That is the whole point.

A drug positive is an actionable offense, indeed, but not all drug positives are proof of attempting to influence a horses performance.

I got this information from from the Racing Medication and Testing Consortium.

The drug, mepivacaine, is banned on race day in every jurisdiction in the country, a so-called Class 2 drug with a high potential to enhance performance because it can deaden pain in a horse's legs. The concentration found in No End in Sight's postrace tests was powerful - 750 times higher than another recent positive for mepivacaine - and resulted in a six-month suspension for Steve Asmussen, one of the country's most prolific and successful trainers and runner-up the last two years in voting for the Eclipse Award as top trainer.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by CSC

I got this information from from the Racing Medication and Testing Consortium.

The drug, mepivacaine, is banned on race day in every jurisdiction in the country, a so-called Class 2 drug with a high potential to enhance performance because it can deaden pain in a horse's legs. The concentration found in No End in Sight's postrace tests was powerful - 750 times higher than another recent positive for mepivacaine - and resulted in a six-month suspension for Steve Asmussen, one of the country's most prolific and successful trainers and runner-up the last two years in voting for the Eclipse Award as top trainer.

Riot is not saying that the drug can be GIVEN on race day, only that it is allowable in minute amounts in the horses system on race day.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

Riot is not saying that the drug can be GIVEN on race day, only that it is allowable in minute amounts in the horses system on race day.

However, again 4 prominant Trainers have had significant suspensions for using this particular drug, it seems mepivacaine is certainly not allowable when adminstered illegally.

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by CSC

However, again 4 prominant Trainers have had significant suspensions for using this particular drug, it seems mepivacaine is certainly not allowable when adminstered illegally.

perhaps I missed it, I didn't see any post where someone said it is okay...it should not be given on raceday because it is a strong anesthetic that absolutlely will eliminate pain in an affected joint or foot or whatever. But like Chuck pointed out it is also a valuable diagnostic tool when trying to pinpoint lameness in an animal, and it wears off in several hours (not clears the system).

[CSC]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

perhaps I missed it, I didn't see any post where someone said it is okay...it should not be given on raceday because it is a strong anesthetic that absolutlely will eliminate pain in an affected joint or foot or whatever. But like Chuck pointed out it is also a valuable diagnostic tool when trying to pinpoint lameness in an animal, and it wears off in several hours (not clears the system).

I guess I just don't want to subscribe to the theory that all horses are racing on hay, oats and water.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

I got this information from from the Racing Medication and Testing Consortium.

The drug, mepivacaine, is banned on race day in every jurisdiction in the country, a so-called Class 2 drug with a high potential to enhance performance because it can deaden pain in a horse's legs. The concentration found in No End in Sight's postrace tests was powerful - 750 times higher than another recent positive for mepivacaine - and resulted in a six-month suspension for Steve Asmussen, one of the country's most prolific and successful trainers and runner-up the last two years in voting for the Eclipse Award as top trainer.

In this instance the medication was used on raceday in an attempt to break the rules. Supposedly the shot was to the throat to try to get a horse with breathing problems through a race. (the horse ran up the track as the fav which is why it was tested) According to the information I received about the incident which is from an extremely reliable source, they had been getting away with this until the LA lab began a different test for the drug where before it had not been detected which is why the levels were so high.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

In this instance the medication was used on raceday in an attempt to break the rules. Supposedly the shot was to the throat to try to get a horse with breathing problems through a race. (the horse ran up the track as the fav which is why it was tested) According to the information I received about the incident which is from an extremely reliable source, they had been getting away with this until the LA lab began a different test for the drug where before it had not been detected which is why the levels were so high.

Here's a question, when you train a horse and you see a trainer winning at 35-40% entering in the same race let's use Wayne Catalano as an example, how do you resist not levelling the playing field? Do you scratch...It can't be fun running for second purse. The reason I ask is what goes on in the mindet of the Trainer's playing it straight.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

Here's a question, when you train a horse and you see a trainer winning at 35-40% entering in the same race let's use Wayne Catalano as an example, how do you resist not levelling the playing field? Do you scratch...It can't be fun running for second purse. The reason I ask is what goes on in the mindet of the Trainer's playing it straight.

It is of course frustrating yet I know that what you guys see in the papers about drug positives arent the problem. We all use those meds. It is the same as steroids. Virtually every trainer used them in one form or another. Everyone had access to them. The guys that abused them were pretty obvious just in watching their horses. But those horses rarely lasted long which was the downside of heavy use. The problem is throwing the book at guys for mistakes and trace levels of insignifigence. That distracts everyone from the real drug problem, the one that you wont see coming up in a positive test any time soon. The one that the authorities are barely aware of and seemingly unconcerned about.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

That distracts everyone from the real drug problem, the one that you wont see coming up in a positive test any time soon. The one that the authorities are barely aware of and seemingly unconcerned about.

Interesting what that may be? There are drugs that are undetectable in the Olympics and I would venture to say that their testing is much more thorough than what Horseracing's is. Androl a household name now was untectable for awhile, like I said before the cheaters always seem a couple of steps ahead of the testers. Plus I am not sure horseracing really has shown an appetite to clean up the game, even with recent improvements in testing.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

Interesting what that may be? There are drugs that are undetectable in the Olympics and I would venture to say that their testing is much more thorough than what Horseracing's is. Androl a household name now was untectable for awhile, like I said before the cheaters always seem a couple of steps ahead of the testers. Plus I am not sure horseracing really has shown an appetite to clean up the game, even with recent improvements in testing.

I think that there are lots of differences in human and horse testing. One is that the scope of the sport of horse racing is so much larger than any comparable human sport. There are hundreds of races a day through out the country with horses training at a wide variety of facilities. There are very few olympic class athletes. Not to mention that humans have control over everything they put into their body and are in control of themselves 24 hours a day. Horses have no control what they ingest and are not under direct supervision 24 hours a day. Among the problems with horse racings testing is that we have different levels allowed of the same meds on a state to state basis, differnt states have varying levels of funding to conduct testing and different labs have similar but often different capabilities. There is no doubt that horseracing wants to clean up the sport but it is a complicated process wherein no one has complete control or authority and different jurisdiction simply havent done much to work together. However dont forget that most of the regulatory control over the drug testing in this country is directed by non racing government appointees. cheaters will always be one step ahead regardless of what they are cheating at.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Riot

Mepivacaine is allowed to be in a horses system on race day.

Yes, nanograms matter.

There are dosages at which drugs can influence or affect performance, and dosages at which that is impossible. That is the whole point.

A drug positive is an actionable offense, indeed, but not all drug positives are proof of attempting to influence a horses performance.

It's funny that you can say that its incorrect to assume that a drug positive is definitive proof that there was an attempt to affect performance, but then turn around and say that a drug found at a certain level is definitive proof that there wasn't an attempt to affect performance.

How are these threshold levels determined? Is the research conducted on racehorses? Is the treatment protocol identical to how someone would use it illegally just prior to a race? I doubt it.

Local anesthetics, as the name suggest, are deposited locally and not typically administered directly into a vein, and yet the blood is what is tested. What if I administer a less-than-recommended dose (who says those are necessarily accurate either?) in a single site 4-6 hours prior to post? Since local anesthetics last several hours, couldn't that be sufficient to enhance performance, and if so, is that enough of a time frame to allow drug to be absorbed into the blood stream such that it would test?

Maybe they should think about taking blood samples 2 or 3 days after a race, too.