Joel Rosario

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You beat me to it!

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I just watched it again. If Rosario stays inside, his path MAY be impeded by winchester who would not have tried to fan out. Champs MAY have kept the momentum even while losing a few paths and still win.

Is this not possible?

TVG just showed the replay at about 5PM EST.

I noted that Rosario did a nice job getting his horse settled down and focused on the back stretch. Not sure he would have been there for the final run if he had not done so.

I know it's been bounced back and forth on semantics, but no way was that ride a choke.

I'm also not certain the inside path would have been available. If we would have banked on the inside track and been shut off and missed the board, that would have been a ride to question.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So, you're not sure the exact same inside path Valdidivia took on Champs a few seconds later would have been available? Why not, if Valdivia took it literally 3 seconds later? Would it have magically closed?

The path opened so nicely becausee Winchester went outside to fan Obrigado. Smullen hits him twice left handed.

If Obrigado stays in, isnt it likely smullen closes the door inside?

[westcoastinvader]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So, you're not sure the exact same inside path Valdidivia took on Champs a few seconds later would have been available? Why not, if Valdivia took it literally 3 seconds later? Would it have magically closed?

Valdivia had an easier decision than Rosario as the race unfolded. When Rosario took the sure route on the outside of the 3, the inside was still in doubt.

By the time Valdivia got there, the inside was open due to Rosario's decision to go out for a sure chance and the #3 horse (2-1) drifting wider.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

No, I don't think so. To me it looked like Winchester was coming out regardless. I don't buy the whole fanning out thing. Especially considering Obrigado's odds. Do you really think Smullen was worried about a 23-1 or so horse? Didn't he read the racing form?

Smullen is from the UK. The racing form here is written in American

And if he wasnt fanning out, why is he whipping left handed?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

So we can agree that Rosario's decision to go wide instead of stay in probably cost him more than the 1/2 length or so he got beat?

Oh sure it did. It was probably about three lengths. However, what is not quantifiable is the momentum he was able to keep by going wide and whether or not that was more important than the lost ground. We also dont know what would have happened if he would have stayed inside. We also dont know if Champs had enough horse to take it outside and still win.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You've completely lost me. Fanning out? I'm going to stop posting now, because at this point I'm not sure what other excuse you'll come up with. As usual, we started talking about a decision Rosario made, and now we're in "what if" land. Sorry, you guys can have fun playing that game. For what it's worth I think Rosario rode a fine race for 98% of the race. I just think his decision to go out cost him the win. I think the small margin of victory, by the perfect trip Champs validates my thinking. That's it.

I think Rosario is a good rider and I have no issue with him. I didn't bet the race, so it's not sour grapes. I just think he should have won the race and would have if he remained calm like Valdivia did.

I think its hilarious that its okay for you to make an If/then statement i.e If Rosario takes the inside path then he wins and then you criticize me for making my own hypothetical scenario. The whole thread is based on a hypothesis that a choice to go inside would have resulted in a win for Obrigado. What makes your hypothesis any more kosher than mine or anyone else's?

The bottom line is that Obrigado had his best result in a graded stake of his career. Calling the ride a choke (the statement i originally responded to) is just plain wrong. We will never know what would have resulted if he would have taken the inside path.

[dalakhani]

[quote=DaHoss9698]Thanks for clearing it up for me. And, I wasn't criticizing you for an if/then statement. I was criticizing you for bringing up every other non existant factor than the actual decision itself. But, nothing new there...
I'd also urge you to take a look at Obrigado's PP's one more time. He's not the "claimer" you are trying to paint him to be. He won a grade 2 at Santa Anita last year.[/QUOTE]

LOL. That was "Grade 2" was in February 07 Which would be closer to two years ago and it came over in a 7 horse field over the vaunted On the Acorn. Champs won a Grade 1 in September to go along with his other graded wins and placings. But yet Champs needed a perfect trip to beat a horse that hadnt won in two years???????????

That makes a TON of sense. Of course, nothing new there...

And by the way, I am happy to clear these things up for you.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Dala, this isn't one of your better efforts. But, you've really lost it with this statement: But yet Champs needed a perfect trip to beat a horse that hadnt won in two years???????????

That makes a TON of sense. Of course, nothing new there...

Yes, he did. Did you see the race yesterday? You yourself said you think going outside probably cost Obrigado 3 lengths. He was beat about a half.

I'd stick to bridgejumping discussions up here....just a thought.

What i said was that it is not possible to quantify how important the continuity of momentum was worth and that it wasnt possible to tell what would have happened if he stayed inside. If judged merely on lost ground, I would say around three lengths.

Despite your weak cheap shots, you fail to address either issue. But then again, nothing new there...

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Dala, this isn't one of your better efforts. But, you've really lost it with this statement: But yet Champs needed a perfect trip to beat a horse that hadnt won in two years???????????

That makes a TON of sense. Of course, nothing new there...

Yes, he did. Did you see the race yesterday? You yourself said you think going outside probably cost Obrigado 3 lengths. He was beat about a half.

I'd stick to bridgejumping discussions up here....just a thought.

Dude....I owe you an apology. I cant believe you carried this on for so long. My point was that Rosario made a bad decision. Apparently Rosario has a huge fan base on here and his followers will have none of this criticism. I read some of the responses from this Dalakahni person. It's like arguing with a 7 yr old. This person changes his/her tune every post. I personally like the "horse lost because it was 23-1" comment. IMHO.....the owners of Obrigado should not be racing this animal.....think of all the money they could make with a horse that can read the DRF?

Also was Winchester drifting out..or in...or out ...or in?

Rosario isnt a BAD jock....he just made a bad decision which cost him and the connections a Grade I. He will continue to win the non pretigious races in So Cal.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Dude....I owe you an apology. I cant believe you carried this on for so long. My point was that Rosario made a bad decision. Apparently Rosario has a huge fan base on here and his followers will have none of this criticism. I read some of the responses from this Dalakahni person. It's like arguing with a 7 yr old. This person changes his/her tune every post. I personally like the "horse lost because it was 23-1" comment. IMHO.....the owners of Obrigado should not be racing this animal.....think of all the money they could make with a horse that can read the DRF?

Also was Winchester drifting out..or in...or out ...or in?

Rosario isnt a BAD jock....he just made a bad decision which cost him and the connections a Grade I. He will continue to win the non pretigious races in So Cal.

And you got to make it personal with the needless insult?

I didnt say anything about drifting, hossy did.

How has my tune changed? Ive stayed consistent. It seems you read like you watch a race and i cant be blamed for either of those deficiencies.

What an intense wonderful debate. I love it when true fans trade blows in a respectful way talking about our game and Grade 1 races.

Joel rode Obrigado as he was instructed to.

We're thrilled with a 5 win day and 2nd in a Grade 1 for a great trainer.

Hopefully he'll continue to get opportunities to ride great horses for great connections.

Fabulous thread.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You honestly have no idea what you are talking about. That's why I suggested sticking to bridgejumping. If that's a cheap shot, well I'm guilty I guess. The attempt to play the victim role is a new one for you. Not as effective as your other role I think.

Victim? LOL.

What makes your opinion anymore valid than mine or anyone else's in this matter?

Is it your years of experience as a jockey?

Your experience as a trainer?

Your personal website with millions of hits showing all of the people that value the opinion of Dahoss9698 when it comes to all things horses?


You are just a bettor/racing fan like the rest of us so please spare me the "you dont know what you are talking about" bit because you are in no position one way or the other to judge it.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

What an intense wonderful debate. I love it when true fans trade blows in a respectful way talking about our game and Grade 1 races.

Joel rode Obrigado as he was instructed to.We're thrilled with a 5 win day and 2nd in a Grade 1 for a great trainer.

Hopefully he'll continue to get opportunities to ride great horses for great connections.

Fabulous thread.

and here i thought this would be the last words on the subject. silly me.

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

What an intense wonderful debate. I love it when true fans trade blows in a respectful way talking about our game and Grade 1 races.

Joel rode Obrigado as he was instructed to.

We're thrilled with a 5 win day and 2nd in a Grade 1 for a great trainer.

Hopefully he'll continue to get opportunities to ride great horses for great connections.

Fabulous thread.

Anytime Vic. 5 wins is nice. But too bad he didnt win the big race. His move on the turn cost the horse the race....but hopefully you will go over the race with him and point out his mistake and make him a better jockey.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Anytime Vic. 5 wins is nice. But too bad he didnt win the big race. His move on the turn cost the horse the race....but hopefully you will go over the race with him and point out his mistake and make him a better jockey.

He just said he was riding to instructions. Do you need that translated to braile or swahili as well?

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

He just said he was riding to instructions. Do you need that translated to braile or swahili as well?

Man are you ignorant. What were his instructions? "Lose ground on the far turn and open up rail for the eventual winner". If so he followed them perfectly.

Any person with two functioning eyes in their head can see that Rosario made the wrong choice and went wide instead of holding position inside with a dying horse in 2nd. There was plenty of room to stay on the rail.

Very simple case here...Rosario stays inside..Obrigado gets a Grade I win. He didnt and handed the race to Valdivia. Watch the finish..Obrigado still had a ton of horse even after going wide...he was the best horse Saturday.

Just because the agent of the jock said it was a good ride doesnt mean it was. What is he gonna say. My jock screwed up.

IF VS thinks that Rosario did the right thing on the turn and didnt cost his horse the win then maybe perhaps he should stick to announcing.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by stonegossard

Man are you ignorant. What were his instructions? "Lose ground on the far turn and open up rail for the eventual winner". If so he followed them perfectly.

Any person with two functioning eyes in their head can see that Rosario made the wrong choice and went wide instead of holding position inside with a dying horse in 2nd. There was plenty of room to stay on the rail.

Very simple case here...Rosario stays inside..Obrigado gets a Grade I win. He didnt and handed the race to Valdivia. Watch the finish..Obrigado still had a ton of horse even after going wide...he was the best horse Saturday.

Just because the agent of the jock said it was a good ride doesnt mean it was. What is he gonna say. My jock screwed up.

LOL

Im ignorant but you cant read what Vic said in the post and cant deduce from the ride what the instructions were. LOL

Let me guess and maybe Vic can confirm what the instructions were later. "stay on the rail and take him out around the turn for a clear run".

But then again, you probably know more than Vic or anyone else on the matter right?

LAST WORD!

[stonegossard]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

LOL

Im ignorant but you cant read what Vic said in the post and cant deduce from the ride what the instructions were. LOL

Let me guess and maybe Vic can confirm what the instructions were later. "stay on the rail and take him out around the turn for a clear run".

But then again, you probably know more than Vic or anyone else on the matter right?

Like I said..anyone (and most on here) agree......Rosario would have won the race if he stayed on thie inside. I am sorry if this is too tough to comprehend. You really didnt watch the race clearly if you cant see this.

If Vic REALLY thought that Rosario's decision at the LAST PART OF THE RACE was a good one, then again, he should stick to announcing. Winchester was dead and going backwards. No reason to go wide like that.

Who am I to question a racetrack announcer.............