Barbaro (the Champ)

Originally Posted by Danzig188

bernardini didn't run in the belmont.

of course that's beside the point....if bernardini wins out the year, he'll get top 3 yo and hoy. he can lose the jcgc and win the bcc and get them both. but if he loses his next two, barbaro will get top 3 yo. at THIS point, bernardini hasn't defeated anyone that barbaro hasn't beaten--matter of fact, bernardini hasn't faced everyone barbaro met on the track.

You are correct. I forgot about Jazil. I'll leave the post uncorrected so others can have some fun with me.

[Scav]

Actually what you might see is Bern to win HORSE of the year and Barbaro to win 3 year old of the year. I think it happened in Kitten's Joy year, but that might have been different because it involved different surfaces

[chupster2]

Originally Posted by Scav

Actually what you might see is Bern to win HORSE of the year and Barbaro to win 3 year old of the year. I think it happened in Kitten's Joy year, but that might have been different because it involved different surfaces

Yeah, that's entirely possible too.

[Suffolk Shippers]

I am probably one of the bigger Barbaro fanboys on the board, but even I must say, he really has no business in 3 Yr Old Champion voting anymore.

I think on a whole this crop of 3 yr old is somewhat thin, and Bernardini stands at the top of it as we speak. Does he beat older horses as handily as he beat some of the weak 3 yr olds? Time will tell. Barbaro's body betrayed him, and while that cannot be held against him, voting in theory that Barbaro was a lead pipe lock to win the Triple Crown and show up and win the BCC, would be an injustice to Bernardini, and an afront to the fans.

Bernardini has manhandled the 3 yr olds since May and if he goes on and wins the BCC he deserves 3 yr old champion and HOY. If he doesn't fare as well against olders, he still should be 3 yr old champion.

Barbaro has alot of things that can never be taken away from him. He was the champion of America's grandest race, winning in a fashion that to compare, needed history books to be cracked opened and examined. That alone endeared him to an entire nation, and when that nation watched him take to the track again, it wept at what it saw.

He is a champion, cut down in his prime by a fragile body. He fights everyday to see the sun rise every morning. His day to day battle inspires many. Some even see him as a "hero". Misguided or not, Barbaro is a champion of heart and determination and the 2006 Kentucky Derby. The heart and determination is a far more grand prize than a shiny Eclipse Award.

That being said, Bernardini deserves that shiny Eclipse Award.

[chupster2]

I think it's a bit strong to say he shouldn't be in the voting, myself.

A simple fact that even the most ardent of Bernardini supporters couldn't even argue is, you take Bernardini out of the races he's won and insert Barbaro, certainly you'd have to like his chances of being sucessful in those races. Now you take Babaro's wins and take him out and insert Bernardini, well I see LOTS of question marks in him being able to win those races, and THAT is what people are missing in this debate. If you're going to punish Lava Man for winning against suspect competition, then you would have to do the same thing for what Bernardini is facing.

[Independent George]

I'm still not sold on the alleged "greatness" of Bernardidni. Yesterday he beat 5 horses setting a pedestran pace. He beat 5 horses in the Dandy including Minister's Bid (2nd) and Hemingway's Key (3rd). He beat 3 horses in the Withers. The Preakness,with 8 finishers, was a race in which the entire flow changed one furlong out of the gate, though I think it was Bernardini's most impressive.
I want to see him in a race with a semi-full field (9 or 10 horses); I want to see him in a race with legitimate speed types as well as some talented late foot. Then I want to see him duplicate to some extent the ease or winning margins he's been able to do against short, suspect fields before I hang the "great" sign on him.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by Scav

Actually what you might see is Bern to win HORSE of the year and Barbaro to win 3 year old of the year. I think it happened in Kitten's Joy year, but that might have been different because it involved different surfaces

If Bernardini wins the Breedrs Cup Classic he should be Horse of the Year and top 3 yo award.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by chromer

You are correct. I forgot about Jazil. I'll leave the post uncorrected so others can have some fun with me.

poor jazil!!!

steppenwolfer is done for the year, any word on jazil?

[Thunder Gulch]

Hey, I love Barbaro and what he did in Florida and Louisville, but this is Bernardini's championship to win or lose depending on what happens. That's just the tough reality of the race as it stands. Barbaro wouldn't be the first to go to the sidelines and lose division honors due to an injury, so let's not overstate his case and give him the sympathy vote. Voting for Barbaro at this point would be like voting for Bellamy Road after last year's Wood.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

Hey, I love Barbaro and what he did in Florida and Louisville, but this is Bernardini's championship to win or lose depending on what happens. That's just the tough reality of the race as it stands. Barbaro wouldn't be the first to go to the sidelines and lose division honors due to an injury, so let's not overstate his case and give him the sympathy vote. Voting for Barbaro at this point would be like voting for Bellamy Road after last year's Wood.

no one is suggesting it isn't bernardinis to win or lose.

but comparing barbaro to bellamy road would be like comparing bernardini to sinister minister.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

no one is suggesting it isn't bernardinis to win or lose.

but comparing barbaro to bellamy road would be like comparing bernardini to sinister minister.

wait I take offense to that...BR backed up his performance in the Wood with a corageous, albeit losing effort in the Travers. I still haven't seen Sinister Minister validate his high beyer mark with a top notch performance.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

wait I take offense to that...BR backed up his performance in the Wood with a corageous, albeit losing effort in the Travers. I still haven't seen Sinister Minister validate his high beyer mark with a top notch performance.

easy coach! i like bellamy road too..

[chupster2]

Originally Posted by BellamyRd.

wait I take offense to that...BR backed up his performance in the Wood with a corageous, albeit losing effort in the Travers. I still haven't seen Sinister Minister validate his high beyer mark with a top notch performance.

He backed the fact that he had talent, but in no way indicated brilliance. Barbaro most definitely gave us glimmers of brilliance and versatility.

Originally Posted by chupster2

He backed the fact that he had talent, but in no way indicated brilliance. Barbaro most definitely gave us glimmers of brilliance and versatility.

OK, I'll reluctantly concede that notion...

[chupster2]

Originally Posted by Thunder Gulch

Hey, I love Barbaro and what he did in Florida and Louisville, but this is Bernardini's championship to win or lose depending on what happens. That's just the tough reality of the race as it stands. Barbaro wouldn't be the first to go to the sidelines and lose division honors due to an injury, so let's not overstate his case and give him the sympathy vote. Voting for Barbaro at this point would be like voting for Bellamy Road after last year's Wood.

Oh now that is just wrong. No way. Bellamy Road never accomplished anything near what Barbaro has and he never supported his Wood with another performance where as Barbaro proved everything he did by just getting better.

[sumitas]

Imo, Barabro is still the reigning 3 yr old at this time. If Bern was in the Fla derby is see him coming in 3rd and losing the KD to Bobby. You can't take away what Bobby did or even what he could have done. on and off the track.

Originally Posted by sumitas

Imo, Barabro is still the reigning 3 yr old at this time. If Bern was in the Fla derby is see him coming in 3rd and losing the KD to Bobby. You can't take away what Bobby did or even what he could have done. on and off the track.

That's amazing! What an incredible talent you have for the hypothetical.

Hey ... where would Stevie Wonderboy have finished in the Kentucky Derby? How about Corinthian and High Cotton ... where would they have finished? And how about Folklore ... suppose she were healthy and D. Wayne decided to run her against the boys?

This is fascinating ... simply fascinating!

[sumitas]

I think Barbaro will get some votes based on his performance on the track. Deservedly so. And I'll think he'll get some votes for his determination off the track, God willing he pulls through. Deservedley so.

I think his ordeal off the track merits consideration for Horse Of The Year Voting.