2009 Graded Stakes

SniperSB23 · #1 11-25-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Frost Giant won the Suburban this year... and PG loves him. That is probably enough to downgrade it on it's own!

It's based on the last three years. Can you really say the Suburban with Frost Giant, Political Force, and Invasor is any worse than the Stephen Foster with Curlin, Flashy Bull, and Seek Gold? That one should be a G1 and the other shouldn't? Really, they should both be G1s and the Foster should be moved to Derby weekend where there is a hole in the calendar.

philcski · #2 11-25-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

It's based on the last three years. Can you really say the Suburban with Frost Giant, Political Force, and Invasor is any worse than the Stephen Foster with Curlin, Flashy Bull, and Seek Gold? That one should be a G1 and the other shouldn't?

how about vs. the Clark, with AP Arrow, Premium Tap, Magna Grad, and Saint Liam, which is a G2?

SniperSB23 · #3 11-25-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

how about vs. the Clark, with AP Arrow, Premium Tap, Magna Grad, and Saint Liam, which is a G2?

I wouldn't have a problem with the Clark returning to a G1 ahead of some of these other races. The fact is, we need races that give a reason for owners to bring their top 3yos back. Downgrading the races in the older male division is just providing even less incentive. In just two years we've seen the Pimlico Special lost as a G1, the Mass Cap lost as a G2, and both the Suburban and Clark dropped from G1 to G2 while to counterbalance only the Goodwood on cushion crap has gone to G1. How is that helping provide incentive to bring back a good horse?

Travis Stone · #4 11-25-2008, 03:38 PM

Horse racing is probably the only sport which rates their events before the participants are known or the event is held.

blackthroatedwind · #5 11-25-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

Horse racing is probably the only sport which rates their events before the participants are known or the event is held.

You're kidding....right?

Every professional sport does the same thing.

Travis Stone · #6 11-25-2008, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

You're kidding....right?

Every professional sport does the same thing.

My point is that we call this race a top race, and that race a mediocre race, before we even know who is running. Aside from the marketing usage, I don't understand what value it adds? And on the flip-side, would it be so bad to have a number assigned down the road where breeders could use it more accurately?

SniperSB23 · #7 11-25-2008, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis Stone

My point is that we call this race a top race, and that race a mediocre race, before we even know who is running. Aside from the marketing usage, I don't understand what value it adds? And on the flip-side, would it be so bad to have a number assigned down the road where breeders could use it more accurately?

Yes, it would. Then you'd have the connections of Curlin announce he was going to one race and everyone ducking him for another. The other race gets assigned a G1 cause of a deep field and Curlin's race becomes a G3 because it turns into a walkover. By assigning the Grade ahead of time those people can choose to duck Curlin in the G1 but may have to run in a G2 or G3 to do so.

blackthroatedwind · #8 11-25-2008, 03:54 PM

Breeder's are looking for accuracy? Who knew.

There are two groups....people who look at things accurately ( bettors ) and people who....well you know.

Linny · #9 11-25-2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

how about vs. the Clark, with AP Arrow, Premium Tap, Magna Grad, and Saint Liam, which is a G2?

The Clark was upgraded for exactly 1 year and downgraded the next season. Strange. This year's Clark (G2) is better than the Cigar Mile (G1) so one yearobviously doesn't make or break a race.

blackthroatedwind · #10 11-25-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Linny

The Clark was upgraded for exactly 1 year and downgraded the next season. Strange. This year's Clark (G2) is better than the Cigar Mile (G1) so one yearobviously doesn't make or break a race.

It is?

It has Commentator and a bunch of relative dreck. Now, I understand what you are sort of saying about the Cigar, but on overall quality, it is a MUCH better race.

I do find the upgrade and then immediate downgrade, especially in that Premium Tap won it, to have been pretty strange.