Prince of Change reaches for dangerous 'retreads!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Capitulate?
Capitulate?

You look at issues that might be benificial to multiple countries
and dont partake, just call it capitulation? Are we capitulating
while meeting with the heads of state about the current world
economic crisis?

What the heck are you suggesting that I suggested? When did I mention
capitulate. I wrote listen to. If we dont listen, how the hell can we understand the correct road to take?

Take a deep breath, will ya! Of course the economic situations begs for a summit. But the whole premise of sitting down with those who wish to crush us is ridiculous. They are the ones bringing the crap to us. Look at Europe...France and England are radical Muslim strongholds...cars burning, people sliced up for an infraction, people gunned down....that's not what America stands for....THEY should figure the peaceful road to take

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Take a deep breath, will ya! Of course the economic situations begs for a summit. But the whole premise of sitting down with those who wish to crush us is ridiculous. They are the ones bringing the crap to us. Look at Europe...France and England are radical Muslim strongholds...cars burning, people sliced up for an infraction, people gunned down....that's not what America stands for....THEY should figure the peaceful road to take

OMG....forget the Koolade, Timm needs an anti-psychotic stat!!!
Let me try and follow the rant...oops, I mean "logic", if European countries are radical Muslim strongholds because of acts of terrorism that happen in their country then we are a radical Muslim stronghold because of 9-11?????

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

OMG....forget the Koolade, Timm needs an anti-psychotic stat!!!
Let me try and follow the rant...oops, I mean "logic", if European countries are radical Muslim strongholds because of acts of terrorism that happen in their country then we are a radical Muslim stronghold because of 9-11?????

Do you ever read a paper....112 cars a day average burned in France in 2007!
Intelligence reports state England is second target behind US. I didn't say a word about 9/11.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Do you ever read a paper....112 cars a day average burned in France in 2007!
Intelligence reports state England is second target behind US. I didn't say a word about 9/11.

"Second target behind US"...damn Timm do you read what you post???

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

"Second target behind US"...damn Timm do you read what you post???

And you have other stats?

Originally Posted by somerfrost

OMG....forget the Koolade, Timm needs an anti-psychotic stat!!!
Let me try and follow the rant...oops, I mean "logic", if European countries are radical Muslim strongholds because of acts of terrorism that happen in their country then we are a radical Muslim stronghold because of 9-11?????

I think he is speaking to all the bombing that has taken place in London and Paris (and other European cities). Strongholds was way overstated. I think thats what he means. They have trouble with Islamic extremists bombing night clubs etc... and have for a while. But I think he forgets that London had just as many bombings by Christians (Catholic extremists from Ireland, the IRA). Although I get the cutting feeling he does not consider Catholics real Christians. In that case I would have him go back in time and visit Northern Ireland and the Protestant terrorist groups.

[somerfrost]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think he is speaking to all the bombing that has taken place in London and Paris (and other European cities). Strongholds was way overstated. I think thats what he means. They have trouble with Islamic extremists bombing night clubs etc... and have for a while. But I think he forgets that London had just as many bombings by Christians (Catholic extremists from Ireland, the IRA).

Selective memory!

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by pgardn

I think he is speaking to all the bombing that has taken place in London and Paris (and other European cities). Strongholds was way overstated. I think thats what he means. They have trouble with Islamic extremists bombing night clubs etc... and have for a while. But I think he forgets that London had just as many bombings by Christians (Catholic extremists from Ireland, the IRA).

why do you label bombers like IRA christians? I believe that whole circumstance is over the right to rule!

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

why do you label bombers like IRA christians? I believe that whole circumstance is over the right to rule!

Thats what they call themselves. You dont like that?
Kinda of like some of the Muslims groups here in the US
that get so upset when their extreme brethren get them labeled.
There were Catholic priests giving money to the IRA in Boston.
And many other Catholics that detest the IRA.

It comes from centuries of hatred.
And that of course leads to trying to take political control. In these cases,
I cant separate the two. Maybe you can. You are choosing which conflicts
you wish to label rather indiscriminately.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

why do you label bombers like IRA christians? I believe that whole circumstance is over the right to rule!

I believe the IRA vs England / Northern Ireland has more to do with England invading Ireland and basically making the population go from 8,000,000 to 1,000,000 (immigrating to the USA and dead from potato famine) and THEN England decided to keep the top part of Ireland...

Sure Irish are Catholics and English are Protestants but I dont believe the hatred is caused by the religion.

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I believe the IRA vs England / Northern Ireland has more to do with England invading Ireland and basically making the population go from 8,000,000 to 1,000,000 (immigrating to the USA and dead from potato famine) and THEN England decided to keep the top part of Ireland...

Sure Irish are Catholics and English are Protestants but I dont believe the hatred is caused by the religion.

This is a long standing hatred that goes centuries back.
ONe could argue all this Protestant v. Catholic stuff goes
back to Martin Luther.

[Antitrust32]

^^^

oh by the way I am extremely biased about the Ireland/England thing so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

(yay Ireland)

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

^^^

oh by the way I am extremely biased about the Ireland/England thing so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

(yay Ireland)

I stand by my prior post.
Goes way back.
Distrusting long standing differences.

Many Protestants still have a great distrust of
Catholics and their Pope. Protestants dont believe
the Pope has a direct phone line to God. Protestants
have preachers who tell them to read the bible for
themselves while all the time intepreting it for them.

Quite comical.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I believe the IRA vs England / Northern Ireland has more to do with England invading Ireland and basically making the population go from 8,000,000 to 1,000,000 (immigrating to the USA and dead from potato famine) and THEN England decided to keep the top part of Ireland...

Sure Irish are Catholics and English are Protestants but I dont believe the hatred is caused by the religion.

thank you...that's basically what I meant...the right to govern oneself.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I believe the IRA vs England / Northern Ireland has more to do with England invading Ireland and basically making the population go from 8,000,000 to 1,000,000 (immigrating to the USA and dead from potato famine) and THEN England decided to keep the top part of Ireland...

Sure Irish are Catholics and English are Protestants but I dont believe the hatred is caused by the religion.

england and ireland have been fighting over the irish territories since william the conqueror/1066, back when it was all catholics. way more to it then religion.

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Take a deep breath, will ya! Of course the economic situations begs for a summit. But the whole premise of sitting down with those who wish to crush us is ridiculous. They are the ones bringing the crap to us. Look at Europe...France and England are radical Muslim strongholds...cars burning, people sliced up for an infraction, people gunned down....that's not what America stands for....THEY should figure the peaceful road to take

I am thinking in broader terms, not just places like Iran and Syria
which clearly are problems. But sitting down with places like North Korea
and Pakistan (hanging in the balance right now) and finding out exactly
what they are about is knowlege that is powerful stuff. And definitely NOT
turning up our noses at every European proposal and going it on our own.
That is a recipe for failure. We have to talk before acting.
And I mean talking and then sanctioning till we are blue in the face.
We have to have cooperation and the only way to get it is to talk.
We cannot sanction some country and then immediately have Russia
supply them with what our sanctions prohibited. It is foolishness.
We have to know when we are in a position of power and when
we are not. We just cant go in demanding not having any idea
where we stand. That is diplomacy. It is an art. We used to be good
at it.