Lawyer Ron returns in St. Louis Derby

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

That is not how I understood it........I was told that he vetted out clean when his new owners bought him...I think your info may be a little off because I know that there is no way that a stud farm would invest millions in a colt that didn't vet out and then turn aroudn and jeopardize breaking him down in a tough race like the Derby....just wouldn't happen...no way

war emblem had chips when the t'bred corp bought him. mineshaft ran with a chip or two. they acknowledged that down the line it could be a problem with them, but until the time came...

didn't kittens joy have one he ran with for a bit, until it started to bother him?

Originally Posted by Danzig188

war emblem had chips when the t'bred corp bought him. mineshaft ran with a chip or two. they acknowledged that down the line it could be a problem with them, but until the time came...

didn't kittens joy have one he ran with for a bit, until it started to bother him?

Yeah, but my point is that there is no way that a stud farm would have bought him with chips for the money they spent...they wouldn't be able to insure him for the right price...think about it...trust me from knowing a little bit about that facet of the game, if he didn't vet out they wouldn't have spent that kind of cash on him.....or I would be VERY surprised because it is not normal or correct practice....he is giving up a lot already as a stallion prospect IMO...he is smallish and is by Langfuhr...those alone hurt his value...just can't see Stonewall buying with a chip..

[Danzig]

forgive my ignorance....but why would a stud farm care if he had a chip? esp when you consider some of the horses at stud who have rotten conformation...
a chip is enough to pass on a horse?
then you consider unbridleds song...he didn't vet out, and the owner had the last laugh, hell he's still laughing now.

i guess i don't see the huge problem, considering the price the japanese paid out for war emblem and his chips.

[sumitas]

why does being a son of Langfuhr hurt his value at stud ? i know Langfuhr stands for $20k.

and LR is a little light on reines de course. has 5 in his first 5 gens wchich limits some inbreeding possibilities. he's o/o a Lord Avie mare which opens up a possible Secretariat/SIr Gaylord cross.

Originally Posted by sumitas

why does being a son of Langfuhr hurt his value at stud ? i know Langfuhr stands for $20k.

and LR is a little light on reines de course. has 5 in his first 5 gens wchich limits some inbreeding possibilities. he's o/o a Lord Avie mare which opens up a possible Secretariat/SIr Gaylord cross.

Langfurh is no world beater and by no means an established sire of sires....sorry, but bloodstock agents won't like his second-hand blood until he proves something
.....

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cunningham Racing

Langfurh is no world beater and by no means an established sire of sires....sorry, but bloodstock agents won't like his second-hand blood until he proves something
.....

Langfuhr's oldest foals are now 7; supposing a son from that first crop went into service at age 4, his oldest foals would now be 2. Not much of a chance to be established as a 'sire of sires' yet. Anyway, people usually emphasize that aspect when the horse they are offering has limited performance credentials, which is not a problem for Ronny. Langfuhr won the Met Mile, Carter H, Forego H, and Vosburgh S; he was bred in Canada and most of his earlier foals were Canadian-bred or based. He also has shuttled, so has some SWs Down Under that nobody ever heard of.

Langfuhr has sired 2 champions: Wando (Horse of the Year in Canada, Triple Crown winner), Mobil (champion older horse in Canada), and numerous SWs including Imperial Gesture (Beldame S-G1), Imperialism (3x G2 winner, 3rd Kentucky Derby), Black Tom (Perth Cup-G2,Aus), Frightening (G2 in Australia), Jambalaya (G2), etc. He's not Storm Cat or Mr. P or Danzig (his dad), but most stallions aren't; yet many such have had good racing sons who make good sires, like Ack Ack (his best son Youth failed at stud, but Broad Brush carries on) or Damascus (no major sire sons, but several decent ones).

And LR does it again. Winning the St Louis derby in his first race back from the chip. Quite impressive when a horse who has a chip taken out can return first crack out of the box and win a 250 grand race, no matter where a 250 grand race is run, they don't give those away.

[Pedigree Ann]

An Addendum - Lawyer Ron is the sort of stallion who going to be desparately needed in Kentucky very soon. He has one cross of Northern Dancer but NO Raise a Native (so no Mr. P) or Storm Cat or Seattle Slew or any of the really fashionable bloodlines. Outcrossing is going to be vital and Ron can provide that.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Langfuhr's oldest foals are now 7; supposing a son from that first crop went into service at age 4, his oldest foals would now be 2. Not much of a chance to be established as a 'sire of sires' yet. Anyway, people usually emphasize that aspect when the horse they are offering has limited performance credentials, which is not a problem for Ronny. Langfuhr won the Met Mile, Carter H, Forego H, and Vosburgh S; he was bred in Canada and most of his earlier foals were Canadian-bred or based. He also has shuttled, so has some SWs Down Under that nobody ever heard of.

Langfuhr has sired 2 champions: Wando (Horse of the Year in Canada, Triple Crown winner), Mobil (champion older horse in Canada), and numerous SWs including Imperial Gesture (Beldame S-G1), Imperialism (3x G2 winner, 3rd Kentucky Derby), Black Tom (Perth Cup-G2,Aus), Frightening (G2 in Australia), Jambalaya (G2), etc. He's not Storm Cat or Mr. P or Danzig (his dad), but most stallions aren't; yet many such have had good racing sons who make good sires, like Ack Ack (his best son Youth failed at stud, but Broad Brush carries on) or Damascus (no major sire sons, but several decent ones).

I'm telling you, Pedigree Anne, he is not the most attractive stallion prosepct due to his size and Langfurh does hurt him alot...the Danzig sire line is not a very productive line anyway...sure, there is Danehill, etc. - but Danzig has actually been considered as a disappointing sire of sires...he is FAR better on the broodmare side...

I'm just stating what the industry experts opinions are....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by sumitas

why does being a son of Langfuhr hurt his value at stud ? i know Langfuhr stands for $20k.

and LR is a little light on reines de course. has 5 in his first 5 gens wchich limits some inbreeding possibilities. he's o/o a Lord Avie mare which opens up a possible Secretariat/SIr Gaylord cross.

langfuhr is #11 right now on the top sires list. he's doing just fine.

Originally Posted by Danzig188

forgive my ignorance....but why would a stud farm care if he had a chip? esp when you consider some of the horses at stud who have rotten conformation...
a chip is enough to pass on a horse?
then you consider unbridleds song...he didn't vet out, and the owner had the last laugh, hell he's still laughing now.

i guess i don't see the huge problem, considering the price the japanese paid out for war emblem and his chips.

becasue they wouldn't want to invest in a stud that wasn't 100% to risk breaking him down and not getting him to the original reason they bought him - for stud duty...if the horse retires and goes to stud and then doesn't vet out then it is no big deal, But if he is stillr raicng it is a VERY big deal from a risk standpoint....the insurance wouldnb;t go for it first of all..

All out to beat Smokeyjonessutton?

Well ... at least he's healthy again ... and a win is a win. Does Fairmount have any more stakes races carded for him?

Onward and upward.