Prop 8 Sucks

[SCUDSBROTHER]

When you put this up to a majority vote, you're on a slippery slope, because you're empowering religion. If you look honestly at this, you'll see that religious people are having a say in how other people get to live. They are deciding who can get married(based atleast ,in part, on their religious views.) Majority rule is a way to get around the separation of church n' state.

[DerbyCat]

Alright, I'm going to throw in my two cents here (can't let Lori fight this battle single-handedly). Prop 8 p*ssed me off. I married my lifetime partner on August 15th in paddock #4 at Bay Meadows (we all know how much I loved that that track - there's the proof ). Sure, we had a lawyer draw up a trust, power of attorney and living will (at a cost of $3,500), had a civil union several years ago in Vermont and were registered domestic partners in California, but it's not the same. Yes, many of the rights are the same with a marriage and a domestic partnership (in California), the only big difference that I can think of off the top of my head is that my partner no longer has to pay taxes on the health benefits that she receives from my employer, she did when we were "domestic partners". But unlike "straight" marriage, mine probably won't be recognized if I cross state lines. If we are involved in an accident when we travel on vacation in another state, I may very well not be allowed to visit my wife in the hospital and make decisions on her care - my brother and his wife who live in Vermont would have no problem in this same situation. Unfair. If I move to another state, my marriage is not recognized, my brothers is. Unfair.

I'd like to discuss the "I chose to be gay". Who the h*ll would *choose* to be gay? Who *chooses* to be born tall or short, with brown eyes or blond hair, webbed toes - who chooses to be significantly different in any way? Why is 10% of the population left handed? Did you *choose* to like the opposite sex? I'm sorry for all of the folks born straight who just don't get it but I didn't choose this - I *knew* when I was 4 years old that I liked Lisa in my pre-school class the same way that my best friend Tommy liked her, but unfortunately, I absolutely knew in 1970 that a girl liking a girl was not cool - and how sad is that for a four year old kid to know that what they feel at the core of their very being is "not acceptable". It sucks.

For those of you in other parts of this great country, and there is no where else I'd rather live, I understand that this is not something you may understand, want to accept, or can even tolerate - but it is my life and the life or upwards of 10% of your fellow Americans - whether you like it or not, we are amongst you - we are your co-workers, your family members, your friends, your neighbors, and we may even be you. It's ok, we are all Americans and we look at for each other. The only thing that separates us is fear of the unknown, some hate, some misunderstanding and unfortunately, religious beliefs. There, I said it. Interpretation of the Bible separates us. You can read it anyway you want, but to say that my life is not worthy of the same rights you have is ridiculous. In the Old Testament, homosexuality is practically on the same level as eating shellfish and wearing blended fabrics - yes, all are an abomination. Think about why these items were "forbidden" - homosexuality didn't propagate the species, eating bad shellfish caused horrible illness and sometimes death, and blended fabrics simply looked tacky (ok, I made that part up). Times change, as evidenced by the Civil War, suffrage, Civil Rights, the fall of the Berlin Wall, etc. People afraid of change are simply fearful that the way that they live their life may change, and folks like to be comfortable. I know I do. But I also appreciate changes in my life and the lives of others – who can’t appreciate happiness and seeing others do well? Why wouldn’t we want that for others? Only two reasons – fear of change and wanting to impose your belief on others – neither are good reasons. Live your life, do it as well as you can, let others live theirs as well. And let God sort ‘em all out in the end – remember, that’s above your pay grade.

My two cents.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Alright, I'm going to throw in my two cents here (can't let Lori fight this battle single-handedly). Prop 8 p*ssed me off. I married my lifetime partner on August 15th in paddock #4 at Bay Meadows (we all know how much I loved that that track - there's the proof ). Sure, we had a lawyer draw up a trust, power of attorney and living will (at a cost of $3,500), had a civil union several years ago in Vermont and were registered domestic partners in California, but it's not the same. Yes, many of the rights are the same with a marriage and a domestic partnership (in California), the only big difference that I can think of off the top of my head is that my partner no longer has to pay taxes on the health benefits that she receives from my employer, she did when we were "domestic partners". But unlike "straight" marriage, mine probably won't be recognized if I cross state lines. If we are involved in an accident when we travel on vacation in another state, I may very well not be allowed to visit my wife in the hospital and make decisions on her care - my brother and his wife who live in Vermont would have no problem in this same situation. Unfair. If I move to another state, my marriage is not recognized, my brothers is. Unfair.

I'd like to discuss the "I chose to be gay". Who the h*ll would *choose* to be gay? Who *chooses* to be born tall or short, with brown eyes or blond hair, webbed toes - who chooses to be significantly different in any way? Why is 10% of the population left handed? Did you *choose* to like the opposite sex? I'm sorry for all of the folks born straight who just don't get it but I didn't choose this - I *knew* when I was 4 years old that I liked Lisa in my pre-school class the same way that my best friend Tommy liked her, but unfortunately, I absolutely knew in 1970 that a girl liking a girl was not cool - and how sad is that for a four year old kid to know that what they feel at the core of their very being is "not acceptable". It sucks.

For those of you in other parts of this great country, and there is no where else I'd rather live, I understand that this is not something you may understand, want to accept, or can even tolerate - but it is my life and the life or upwards of 10% of your fellow Americans - whether you like it or not, we are amongst you - we are your co-workers, your family members, your friends, your neighbors, and we may even be you. It's ok, we are all Americans and we look at for each other. The only thing that separates us is fear of the unknown, some hate, some misunderstanding and unfortunately, religious beliefs. There, I said it. Interpretation of the Bible separates us. You can read it anyway you want, but to say that my life is not worthy of the same rights you have is ridiculous. In the Old Testament, homosexuality is practically on the same level as eating shellfish and wearing blended fabrics - yes, all are an abomination. Think about why these items were "forbidden" - homosexuality didn't propagate the species, eating bad shellfish caused horrible illness and sometimes death, and blended fabrics simply looked tacky (ok, I made that part up). Times change, as evidenced by the Civil War, suffrage, Civil Rights, the fall of the Berlin Wall, etc. People afraid of change are simply fearful that the way that they live their life may change, and folks like to be comfortable. I know I do. But I also appreciate changes in my life and the lives of others – who can’t appreciate happiness and seeing others do well? Why wouldn’t we want that for others? Only two reasons – fear of change and wanting to impose your belief on others – neither are good reasons. Live your life, do it as well as you can, let others live theirs as well. And let God sort ‘em all out in the end – remember, that’s above your pay grade.

My two cents.

that was a really good post. shame that some will completely ignore it and continue with what they think, rather then learn from what people who know, who are living it, will tell them.

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that was a really good post. shame that some will completely ignore it and continue with what they think, rather then learn from what people who know, who are living it, will tell them.

is everything about me

[GPK]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Alright, I'm going to throw in my two cents here (can't let Lori fight this battle single-handedly). Prop 8 p*ssed me off. I married my lifetime partner on August 15th in paddock #4 at Bay Meadows (we all know how much I loved that that track - there's the proof ). Sure, we had a lawyer draw up a trust, power of attorney and living will (at a cost of $3,500), had a civil union several years ago in Vermont and were registered domestic partners in California, but it's not the same. Yes, many of the rights are the same with a marriage and a domestic partnership (in California), the only big difference that I can think of off the top of my head is that my partner no longer has to pay taxes on the health benefits that she receives from my employer, she did when we were "domestic partners". But unlike "straight" marriage, mine probably won't be recognized if I cross state lines. If we are involved in an accident when we travel on vacation in another state, I may very well not be allowed to visit my wife in the hospital and make decisions on her care - my brother and his wife who live in Vermont would have no problem in this same situation. Unfair. If I move to another state, my marriage is not recognized, my brothers is. Unfair.

I'd like to discuss the "I chose to be gay". Who the h*ll would *choose* to be gay? Who *chooses* to be born tall or short, with brown eyes or blond hair, webbed toes - who chooses to be significantly different in any way? Why is 10% of the population left handed? Did you *choose* to like the opposite sex? I'm sorry for all of the folks born straight who just don't get it but I didn't choose this - I *knew* when I was 4 years old that I liked Lisa in my pre-school class the same way that my best friend Tommy liked her, but unfortunately, I absolutely knew in 1970 that a girl liking a girl was not cool - and how sad is that for a four year old kid to know that what they feel at the core of their very being is "not acceptable". It sucks.

For those of you in other parts of this great country, and there is no where else I'd rather live, I understand that this is not something you may understand, want to accept, or can even tolerate - but it is my life and the life or upwards of 10% of your fellow Americans - whether you like it or not, we are amongst you - we are your co-workers, your family members, your friends, your neighbors, and we may even be you. It's ok, we are all Americans and we look at for each other. The only thing that separates us is fear of the unknown, some hate, some misunderstanding and unfortunately, religious beliefs. There, I said it. Interpretation of the Bible separates us. You can read it anyway you want, but to say that my life is not worthy of the same rights you have is ridiculous. In the Old Testament, homosexuality is practically on the same level as eating shellfish and wearing blended fabrics - yes, all are an abomination. Think about why these items were "forbidden" - homosexuality didn't propagate the species, eating bad shellfish caused horrible illness and sometimes death, and blended fabrics simply looked tacky (ok, I made that part up). Times change, as evidenced by the Civil War, suffrage, Civil Rights, the fall of the Berlin Wall, etc. People afraid of change are simply fearful that the way that they live their life may change, and folks like to be comfortable. I know I do. But I also appreciate changes in my life and the lives of others – who can’t appreciate happiness and seeing others do well? Why wouldn’t we want that for others? Only two reasons – fear of change and wanting to impose your belief on others – neither are good reasons. Live your life, do it as well as you can, let others live theirs as well. And let God sort ‘em all out in the end – remember, that’s above your pay grade.

My two cents.

Well said. Hell...I never knew you were female ...much less a gay female.


I still love ya

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by GPK

Well said. Hell...I never knew you were female ...much less a gay female.


I still love ya

Kev - Well I love ya too! You are truly a good man

I see myself in terms of being an *obsessive horse player* a lot more than I see myself as being a *lesbian*... labels are just things people call you to point out how you're different from them - on this site we all have one thing in common - horse racing - and I generally try not to talk about much more than that - I know I can't change the core beliefs of others here but I can point out a different perspective so they may be able to see that folks that are different aren't necessarily evil.

Where would the fun be if we were all the same?

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Kev - Well I love ya too! You are truly a good man

I see myself in terms of being an *obsessive horse player* a lot more than I see myself as being a *lesbian*... labels are just things people call you to point out how you're different from them - on this site we all have one thing in common - horse racing - and I generally try not to talk about much more than that - I know I can't change the core beliefs of others here but I can point out a different perspective so they may be able to see that folks that are different aren't necessarily evil.

Where would the fun be if we were all the same?

Shut your big mouth you DNA junkie.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Shut your big mouth you DNA junkie.

I'll kick yo azz

I've beaten up plenty of Marines before.

[Mortimer]

Ya like 2 trouts and a school of guppies.

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

Alright, I'm going to throw in my two cents here (can't let Lori fight this battle single-handedly). Prop 8 p*ssed me off. I married my lifetime partner on August 15th in paddock #4 at Bay Meadows (we all know how much I loved that that track - there's the proof ). Sure, we had a lawyer draw up a trust, power of attorney and living will (at a cost of $3,500), had a civil union several years ago in Vermont and were registered domestic partners in California, but it's not the same. Yes, many of the rights are the same with a marriage and a domestic partnership (in California), the only big difference that I can think of off the top of my head is that my partner no longer has to pay taxes on the health benefits that she receives from my employer, she did when we were "domestic partners". But unlike "straight" marriage, mine probably won't be recognized if I cross state lines. If we are involved in an accident when we travel on vacation in another state, I may very well not be allowed to visit my wife in the hospital and make decisions on her care - my brother and his wife who live in Vermont would have no problem in this same situation. Unfair. If I move to another state, my marriage is not recognized, my brothers is. Unfair.

I'd like to discuss the "I chose to be gay". Who the h*ll would *choose* to be gay? Who *chooses* to be born tall or short, with brown eyes or blond hair, webbed toes - who chooses to be significantly different in any way? Why is 10% of the population left handed? Did you *choose* to like the opposite sex? I'm sorry for all of the folks born straight who just don't get it but I didn't choose this - I *knew* when I was 4 years old that I liked Lisa in my pre-school class the same way that my best friend Tommy liked her, but unfortunately, I absolutely knew in 1970 that a girl liking a girl was not cool - and how sad is that for a four year old kid to know that what they feel at the core of their very being is "not acceptable". It sucks.

For those of you in other parts of this great country, and there is no where else I'd rather live, I understand that this is not something you may understand, want to accept, or can even tolerate - but it is my life and the life or upwards of 10% of your fellow Americans - whether you like it or not, we are amongst you - we are your co-workers, your family members, your friends, your neighbors, and we may even be you. It's ok, we are all Americans and we look at for each other. The only thing that separates us is fear of the unknown, some hate, some misunderstanding and unfortunately, religious beliefs. There, I said it. Interpretation of the Bible separates us. You can read it anyway you want, but to say that my life is not worthy of the same rights you have is ridiculous. In the Old Testament, homosexuality is practically on the same level as eating shellfish and wearing blended fabrics - yes, all are an abomination. Think about why these items were "forbidden" - homosexuality didn't propagate the species, eating bad shellfish caused horrible illness and sometimes death, and blended fabrics simply looked tacky (ok, I made that part up). Times change, as evidenced by the Civil War, suffrage, Civil Rights, the fall of the Berlin Wall, etc. People afraid of change are simply fearful that the way that they live their life may change, and folks like to be comfortable. I know I do. But I also appreciate changes in my life and the lives of others – who can’t appreciate happiness and seeing others do well? Why wouldn’t we want that for others? Only two reasons – fear of change and wanting to impose your belief on others – neither are good reasons. Live your life, do it as well as you can, let others live theirs as well. And let God sort ‘em all out in the end – remember, that’s above your pay grade.

My two cents.

Oh my God what is the matter with you?


Ever hear that less is more?

[AeWingnut]

Originally Posted by DerbyCat

I'd like to discuss the "I chose to be gay". Who the h*ll would *choose* to be gay? Who *chooses* to be born tall or short, with brown eyes or blond hair, webbed toes - who chooses to be significantly different in any way? Why is 10% of the population left handed? Did you *choose* to like the opposite sex? I'm sorry for all of the folks born straight who just don't get it but I didn't choose this - I *knew* when I was 4 years old that I liked Lisa in my pre-school class the same way that my best friend Tommy liked her, but unfortunately, I absolutely knew in 1970 that a girl liking a girl was not cool - and how sad is that for a four year old kid to know that what they feel at the core of their very being is "not acceptable". It sucks.

you don't have to act on impulses. You could just fake it like Da... I tease.

I prefer to believe in free will and that it isn't a genetic thing. Some believe it insulting to say that homosexuality is like being autistic.

I don't remember being 4 yrs old but I find it hard to believe that 4 yr olds are sexually attracted to anything. I'm sure NAMBLA would disagree

I'm not gay so I'll take your word for it.

So what now.. over turn democracy? if we throw out the votes you don't like can I throw out the ones I don't?

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

you don't have to act on impulses. You could just fake it like Da... I tease.

I prefer to believe in free will and that it isn't a genetic thing. Some believe it insulting to say that homosexuality is like being autistic.

I don't remember being 4 yrs old but I find it hard to believe that 4 yr olds are sexually attracted to anything. I'm sure NAMBLA would disagree

I'm not gay so I'll take your word for it.

So what now.. over turn democracy? if we throw out the votes you don't like can I throw out the ones I don't?

AE, could you be attracted to your own sex if you had to be? If it was required of you, could you do it? Honestly, could you?

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

AE, could you be attracted to your own sex if you had to be? If it was required of you, could you do it? Honestly, could you?

^^^^ Hides gay husband in broom closet.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

you don't have to act on impulses. You could just fake it like Da... I tease.

I prefer to believe in free will and that it isn't a genetic thing. Some believe it insulting to say that homosexuality is like being autistic.

I don't remember being 4 yrs old but I find it hard to believe that 4 yr olds are sexually attracted to anything. I'm sure NAMBLA would disagree

I'm not gay so I'll take your word for it.

So what now.. over turn democracy? if we throw out the votes you don't like can I throw out the ones I don't?

For what it's worth, I had my first crush at age 5- on Harry Belafonte. My parents had the "Live at Carnegie Hall" album and I liked to sit with the cover and look at the photos of him... sigh...

[DerbyCat]

Originally Posted by AeWingnut

you don't have to act on impulses. You could just fake it like Da... I tease.

I prefer to believe in free will and that it isn't a genetic thing. Some believe it insulting to say that homosexuality is like being autistic.

I don't remember being 4 yrs old but I find it hard to believe that 4 yr olds are sexually attracted to anything. I'm sure NAMBLA would disagree

I'm not gay so I'll take your word for it.

So what now.. over turn democracy? if we throw out the votes you don't like can I throw out the ones I don't?

Ok, I'll bite... "don't act on impulse"? And if someone said to you, "don't sneeze, don't blink, don't breath - don't FALL IN LOVE", could you/would you do it? It's not an impulse, it's something within my core being, it is who and what I am - the same way as I have black hair and brown eyes - sure, I could dye my hair and wear blue contacts but I'd still be a brown eyed brunette at my core. Do I be true to myself and live comfortably (because I am very comfortable in my own skin and secure in who I am) or do I try to change myself so that others are more comfortable with me? Where really is the threat in someone gay? Why do people get so bent out of shape by it? It's not contagious, me loving my wife will not make anyone else love their wife any less, and most importantly - why is who I love any business of yours? (ok, besides the fact that I told everyone I love a woman... but besides that ).

As for overturning the law, the constitution protects the rights of the minority, the majority can not impose it's will on the few when it violates their right to equal treatment. It's about minority rights vs. majority rule. That is why the Supreme Court ruled in favor of the minority in cases like Brown vs. Board of Education and Loving vs. Virginia – each of us has constitutional rights that the majority can not take from us – and that even includes the Supreme Court overturning the District of Columbia’s ban on handguns – the Constitution says we get to own guns! Laws aren’t always right which is why lawmakers can’t pass laws and the people can’t vote to take others rights away once the Supreme Court has said so – and that is what is wrong with Prop 8, the California Supreme Court said same-sex couples had the Constitutional right to marry. The only thing Prop 8 did was delay the process until the U.S. Supreme Court makes a ruling. I’m betting on the Constitution.

[Cannon Shell]

who the hell cares about prop 8. You have to be retarded to want to get married anyway...

[GPK]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

who the hell cares about prop 8. You have to be retarded to want to get married anyway...

Thats what I'm talking about. Hence the reason some of us just take a seat in the dugout after only 1 strike

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by GPK

Thats what I'm talking about. Hence the reason some of us just take a seat in the dugout after only 1 strike

Tens of millions of straight men are hoping for prop 8 for their state

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

who the hell cares about prop 8. You have to be retarded to want to get married anyway..

No, it just takes being stuck on someone that likes getting married. I bet only half of the gays (that say they want to get married) really want to get married. 1 out of 2. That's all it takes. The other one is gunna be forced to go along.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No, it just takes being stuck on someone that likes getting married. I bet only half of the gays (that say they want to get married) really want to get married. 1 out of 2. That's all it takes. The other one is gunna be forced to go along.

Dude you are right , not everyone who is gay wants to get married ,and not all hetros want to get married either , its called choice and pretty much everyone should have the right . I cant hardly grasp what the friken hoopla is about , everyone should be free to marry if they are an adult and not related and not married to another person . The whole argument is bogus , gay people getting married has no effect on anybody , and dont bring up the spousal death benifits issue cause there are alot of married hetro people who dont have kids and dont want any and if the discrimination on that is the basis then we need to eleminate married people without children from the SS benifits program so we can spread the wealth around to other folks.
If a church doesnt believe in gay people being married , well good on em , they dont have to , and no one is asking them to , there are church's (gasp)that accept gays and will marry them . I really think for most people who are gay and want to get married they feel just as happy about going downtown to get married and having a grand party afterward as they would about showing up at the local baptist church and tying the knot like the rest of the commoners.