You can hear a pin drop during the McCain speech....

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Oh boy.




I've been trying to tell you Dimmy. Before you hit "send reply" look at what you wrote. For your sake.

I do not intend on conversing with you....I don't need your input into any area of my life. Feel free to bother others.....sorry DTers!

[Scav]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

I do not intend on conversing with you....I don't need your input into any area of my life. Feel free to bother others.....sorry DTers!

You are not understanding the point he is trying to make.

[timmgirvan]

Originally Posted by Scav

You are not understanding the point he is trying to make.

what point? maybe you can translate

[philcski]

Originally Posted by timmgirvan

Comparing Lincoln to Obama is like comparing a Ferrari to a Volkswagon

Comparing you to a horse is like... well...

accurate.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by philcski

HELLS no. I'm a New Yorker through and through but the red tape in this state has really got me hot and bothered lately. I didn't even get to vote because of it. http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=28

I understand your discounting of Huckabee. He was too right for even the most conservative Republicans. Where does Obama fall down from a policy perspective for you? Don't tell me taxes... because I'm 100% sure you don't make enough money to have it hurt you (as do 98% of the population).

So you know, for full disclosure, I was a Hillary supporter but I would have voted for Obama (if given the chance)- the decision being made when Palin was selected as McCain's VP (which HAD to be taken into account given his age and health). McCain on a standalone basis, while I disagree with his anti-gambling policies and military stance, he'd have been a fine leader of this great country. If it was Edwards vs. McCain, McCain would have gotten my vote. Financially, he'd have made more sense for me. But Obama really reminds me of what I've read about Lincoln. Please do your best to stand behind him and not take a radical right stance against that the world is over.

my issue with Huckabee was not that he was too far right, its that he is too religious. I don't want a preacher/president quoting scriptures in his speeches and doing Gods work. I can take him as talk show host, not as pres.

I don't have the strength now to go into again everything that I don't like about Obama's policies. I'll just say I would prefer to vote for someone with more substance under their belt than he has. As Commander-in-chief of the US armed forces he becomes the most powerful man in the world. I see nothing on his resume that makes me think he has what it takes to fulfill that role.

to address your example about taxes, I oppose the whole idea of using the tax code to make things more fair, to redistribute the wealth, etc, even if it would benefit my immediate situation. I'm not looking for a hand-out or a boost from government. I'm not looking to soak the rich, to gain in status by simply electing people that are going to enact policies that benefit my own situation. I believe more that governments role is to provide equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.

funny that you should mention that you didn't want to support McCain based on his military stance, as he was the overwhelming winner of the military voters, and because one of the reasons that the Iraq war has faded so far as an issue that affected voters, is exactly because of McCains military stance. He took an unpopular position and it proved to be the correct one. Since Obama has been all over the map about what to do it doesn't instill confidence that he will suddenly figure it out and get it right the next time there is a tough decision to make, which surely is just around the corner.

i find it strange that so many people voted for Obama based on what they think he will become, what he could be. The comparison to Lincoln doesn't work at all for me.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

my issue with Huckabee was not that he was too far right, its that he is too religious. I don't want a preacher/president quoting scriptures in his speeches and doing Gods work. I can take him as talk show host, not as pres.

I don't have the strength now to go into again everything that I don't like about Obama's policies. I'll just say I would prefer to vote for someone with more substance under their belt than he has. As Commander-in-chief of the US armed forces he becomes the most powerful man in the world. I see nothing on his resume that makes me think he has what it takes to fulfill that role.

to address your example about taxes, I oppose the whole idea of using the tax code to make things more fair, to redistribute the wealth, etc, even if it would benefit my immediate situation. I'm not looking for a hand-out or a boost from government. I'm not looking to soak the rich, to gain in status by simply electing people that are going to enact policies that benefit my own situation. I believe more that governments role is to provide equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.

funny that you should mention that you didn't want to support McCain based on his military stance, as he was the overwhelming winner of the military voters, and because one of the reasons that the Iraq war has faded so far as an issue that affected voters, is exactly because of McCains military stance. He took an unpopular position and it proved to be the correct one. Since Obama has been all over the map about what to do it doesn't instill confidence that he will suddenly figure it out and get it right the next time there is a tough decision to make, which surely is just around the corner.

i find it strange that so many people voted for Obama based on what they think he will become, what he could be. The comparison to Lincoln doesn't work at all for me.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

my issue with Huckabee was not that he was too far right, its that he is too religious. I don't want a preacher/president quoting scriptures in his speeches and doing Gods work. I can take him as talk show host, not as pres.

I don't have the strength now to go into again everything that I don't like about Obama's policies. I'll just say I would prefer to vote for someone with more substance under their belt than he has. As Commander-in-chief of the US armed forces he becomes the most powerful man in the world. I see nothing on his resume that makes me think he has what it takes to fulfill that role.

to address your example about taxes, I oppose the whole idea of using the tax code to make things more fair, to redistribute the wealth, etc, even if it would benefit my immediate situation. I'm not looking for a hand-out or a boost from government. I'm not looking to soak the rich, to gain in status by simply electing people that are going to enact policies that benefit my own situation. I believe more that governments role is to provide equal opportunity, not equal outcomes.
funny that you should mention that you didn't want to support McCain based on his military stance, as he was the overwhelming winner of the military voters, and because one of the reasons that the Iraq war has faded so far as an issue that affected voters, is exactly because of McCains military stance. He took an unpopular position and it proved to be the correct one. Since Obama has been all over the map about what to do it doesn't instill confidence that he will suddenly figure it out and get it right the next time there is a tough decision to make, which surely is just around the corner.

i find it strange that so many people voted for Obama based on what they think he will become, what he could be. The comparison to Lincoln doesn't work at all for me.

Yes... I meant too religious/conservative with respect to Huckabee. Separation of church and state... although America has seemed to have forgotten that policy.

Graduated tax rates ARE what put people on equal opportunity- Obama isn't passing on money from the rich to the poor, like so many people make it sound like. You still have to EARN to benefit, it isn't a HANDOUT (Bush actually tried a handout this year, remember? It didn't work, and I thought it was a good idea at the time.) It's simple economics. The value of $1 to someone making $40k is much higher than someone making $400k. To put it in racing parlance, the reason takeout is higher on trifectas than win bets because the 'bite' of an incremental dollar in tax is lessened.

RE: military... my opinion is we spend too much money on defense in this country. We are spending $12.3 BILLION a month in Iraq/Afghanistan right now. No offense to those that have honorably served our country in legitimate wartime, like World War II or Korea or even Vietnam, but in nonviolent times, the military is a good place for kids to go out of high school who aren't (a) bright/motivated enough for college or (b) skilled enough at a trade. why not spend those same dollars on alternative schools which could mold kids into potentially lucrative careers? Obama has flip flopped a lot on this, as have many people and politicians, I agree. It's definitely something I'm watching closely for when he's up for re-election in 4 years.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by philcski

Graduated tax rates ARE what put people on equal opportunity- Obama isn't passing on money from the rich to the poor, like so many people make it sound like. You still have to EARN to benefit, it isn't a HANDOUT (Bush actually tried a handout this year, remember? It didn't work, and I thought it was a good idea at the time.) It's simple economics. The value of $1 to someone making $40k is much higher than someone making $400k. To put it in racing parlance, the reason takeout is higher on trifectas than win bets because the 'bite' of an incremental dollar in tax is lessened.

RE: military... my opinion is we spend too much money on defense in this country. We are spending $12.3 BILLION a month in Iraq/Afghanistan right now. No offense to those that have honorably served our country in legitimate wartime, like World War II or Korea or even Vietnam, but in nonviolent times, the military is a good place for kids to go out of high school who aren't (a) bright/motivated enough for college or (b) skilled enough at a trade. why not spend those same dollars on alternative schools which could mold kids into potentially lucrative careers?

not so...my oldest chose to go in the navy-perhaps he thought it was his calling?--and he could have gone to any college he chose. he went straight out of high school.
he re-enlists in a few weeks. we've got the best military you can imagine-you think it's the best because it's filled with morons and unskilled labor?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not so...my oldest chose to go in the navy-perhaps he thought it was his calling?--and he could have gone to any college he chose. he went straight out of high school.
he re-enlists in a few weeks. we've got the best military you can imagine-you think it's the best because it's filled with morons and unskilled labor?

I recognize your point Z. Do you think your son is more the exception or more the rule?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

I recognize your point Z. Do you think your son is more the exception or more the rule?

well, since my husband and i both had also enlisted-i'd say everyone in the military is super intelligent!!!...seriously, going by those who we knew from back then, i'd say that you get the same overall spectrum in the military as you do in any large corporation. some top notch, some above average, average, and your fucl< ups. but it's absolutely incorrect to say only those who have no alternatives join the military. matter of fact mark (my oldest) not only just about aced the asvabs, he also had to take a second test for their nuke program, and sailed thru that as well--i mean, does anyone think that a guy could go from working at mcdonalds one day to working on a nuke power plant on a carrier the next?? there is a ton of high tech equipment in the navy, the air force...all the branches really.
my youngest also is considering the navy, he wants to be a pilot. he's hoping to get into the naval academy. he scored a 28 on the ACT as a sophomore. he's certainly not an average kid.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Danzig

well, since my husband and i both had also enlisted-i'd say everyone in the military is super intelligent!!!...seriously, going by those who we knew from back then, i'd say that you get the same overall spectrum in the military as you do in any large corporation. some top notch, some above average, average, and your fucl< ups. but it's absolutely incorrect to say only those who have no alternatives join the military. matter of fact mark (my oldest) not only just about aced the asvabs, he also had to take a second test for their nuke program, and sailed thru that as well--i mean, does anyone think that a guy could go from working at mcdonalds one day to working on a nuke power plant on a carrier the next?? there is a ton of high tech equipment in the navy, the air force...all the branches really.
my youngest also is considering the navy, he wants to be a pilot. he's hoping to get into the naval academy. he scored a 28 on the ACT as a sophomore. he's certainly not an average kid.

Dannie of course you know I mean no disrespect in any way.

Being a private at Fort Drum like my dumbass buddies were and being in flight school at Annapolis or working on nukes are two VERY different things. The Naval Academy is one of the hardest schools in the country to get into for a reason.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not so...my oldest chose to go in the navy-perhaps he thought it was his calling?--and he could have gone to any college he chose. he went straight out of high school.
he re-enlists in a few weeks. we've got the best military you can imagine-you think it's the best because it's filled with morons and unskilled labor?

Easy Danzig, he isn't saying all of them, Phil is smart enough to know and understand that there are educated/smart/intelligent/keen individuals with the armed forces, he isn't saying that. I have met some REAL comedy people that have went into the armed forces, and from my high school, the top of the pile wasn't enlisting in the armed forces, the bottom was

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by Scav

Easy Danzig, he isn't saying all of them, Phil is smart enough to know and understand that there are educated/smart/intelligent/keen individuals with the armed forces, he isn't saying that. I have met some REAL comedy people that have went into the armed forces, and from my high school, the top of the pile wasn't enlisting in the armed forces, the bottom was

Great job.


Really....calling them bottom of the pile. A lot of times in school smart kids fly under the radar because of problems you don't know about. Sometimes the "real" smart kids are the problem.

You and The Philski have greatly disappointed me.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Great job.


Really....calling them bottom of the pile. A lot of times in school smart kids fly under the radar because of problems you don't know about. Sometimes the "real" smart kids are the problem.

You and The Philski have greatly disappointed me.

Sir, I meant the bottom of my graduating class based on grade point average, nothing more.

I have a friend that was not very good in school, but he has been in marines for 10 years, and he is now wealthy, smart and well rounded

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Mortimer

Great job.


Really....calling them bottom of the pile. A lot of times in school smart kids fly under the radar because of problems you don't know about. Sometimes the "real" smart kids are the problem.

You and The Philski have greatly disappointed me.

Mort- that's not my (or Scav's) intention, and I apologize to all if my wording sounded as such. I'm just concerned with the total amount of military spending. My political opinion was influenced by it. That is the discussion at hand...

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Scav

Easy Danzig, he isn't saying all of them, Phil is smart enough to know and understand that there are educated/smart/intelligent/keen individuals with the armed forces, he isn't saying that. I have met some REAL comedy people that have went into the armed forces, and from my high school, the top of the pile wasn't enlisting in the armed forces, the bottom was

Holy **** Scav

The only thing we should have for our service men & women are admiration and respect.

[Scav]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

Holy **** Scav

The only thing we should have for our service men & women are admiration and respect.

WE ARE NOT talking about that. I do nothing but respect them and admire them for what they do.

BUT

I am simply saying my observation from when I was in high school. It wasn't like the top 60% of my graduating class was even considering the military unless they had a military family

Don't go blowing this out of proportation....

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Scav

Easy Danzig, he isn't saying all of them, Phil is smart enough to know and understand that there are educated/smart/intelligent/keen individuals with the armed forces, he isn't saying that. I have met some REAL comedy people that have went into the armed forces, and from my high school, the top of the pile wasn't enlisting in the armed forces, the bottom was

yeah...i'm sure he didn't mean all of them. but if you want to see a woman go off the deep end, make a comment that might involve her kids!! lol

from ) to pissed in a nanosecond.

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Danzig

not so...my oldest chose to go in the navy-perhaps he thought it was his calling?--and he could have gone to any college he chose. he went straight out of high school.
he re-enlists in a few weeks. we've got the best military you can imagine-you think it's the best because it's filled with morons and unskilled labor?

I was skating a fine line by writing that, just basing it on people *I* know that enlisted. Another question I have... do we NEED the best military in the world at this point, which we do have?

Why did he choose the Navy over college (or one of the military academies)?

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by philcski

I was skating a fine line by writing that, just basing it on people *I* know that enlisted. Another question I have... do we NEED the best military in the world at this point, which we do have?
Why did he choose the Navy over college (or one of the military academies)?

uh, well that answer would be 100% yes