Vineyard Haven Sold...

Handicappy · #1 11-02-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Henny Hughes returned and won a gr three race in NJ before winning the gr one King's Bishop and the gr one Vosburgh over older horses. Discreet Cat came back and won the gr two Jerome then beat older in the gr one Cigar Mile, nearly setting a track and world record in the process. Please, at least present better examples of failures if you are going to tell me where my opinion is wrong.

Henny Hughes never had a shot in hell to win the Derby. What he did have a chance to be was the best 3yo sprinter in the country, if not the best sprinter period and it's arguable that he still turned out to be both. Discreet Cat probably wasn't getting 10f on his best days either so to classify them both as failures because they didn't come back here and win the Derby is a bit silly to me.

Maybe the analogy to Pletcher or Frankel is silly. But the point is that even doing things the conventional way is not a guarantee to success. I don't think it's fair to say that the way the Dubai people do it is the reason why their horses haven't won when it's plenty of other people that don't do it their way and they haven't won either.

You really don't know what you are talking about with Godolphin. You really don't. They distroy good athletes. Henny was a good second in the Juvenile. To say you knew he had no chance in being formidable in the derby is plain silly. Maturity as well as athleticism play key roles in that and you can't know that. Henny goes to Dubai and you hear nothing about him until he returns ....... to another trainer! Godolphin is a program operation. They fit horses into their program. Any horse who is tough to train, etc, they do very poorly with. The Albertrani's/McLaughlins, etc have success because they know how to deal with the projects that don't fit into the program. Look it up. You really need to investigate the facts. Of course if you are voting for Obama, then the facts obviously don't matter to you.

Cajungator26 · #2 11-02-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handicappy

You really don't know what you are talking about with Godolphin. You really don't. They distroy good athletes. Henny was a good second in the Juvenile. To say you knew he had no chance in being formidable in the derby is plain silly. Maturity as well as athleticism play key roles in that and you can't know that. Henny goes to Dubai and you hear nothing about him until he returns ....... to another trainer! Godolphin is a program operation. They fit horses into their program. Any horse who is tough to train, etc, they do very poorly with. The Albertrani's/McLaughlins, etc have success because they know how to deal with the projects that don't fit into the program. Look it up. You really need to investigate the facts. Of course if you are voting for Obama, then the facts obviously don't matter to you.

AMEN to that one.

outofthebox · #3 11-02-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handicappy

You really don't know what you are talking about with Godolphin. You really don't. They distroy good athletes. Henny was a good second in the Juvenile. To say you knew he had no chance in being formidable in the derby is plain silly. Maturity as well as athleticism play key roles in that and you can't know that. Henny goes to Dubai and you hear nothing about him until he returns ....... to another trainer! Godolphin is a program operation. They fit horses into their program. Any horse who is tough to train, etc, they do very poorly with. The Albertrani's/McLaughlins, etc have success because they know how to deal with the projects that don't fit into the program. Look it up. You really need to investigate the facts. Of course if you are voting for Obama, then the facts obviously don't matter to you.

Henny Hughes was never a Godophin, or a Darley member. Someone with a better memory than me can probably tell us what member of the sheik family owned and raced him. He was a fantastic sprinter when he came back No ill affects wnen returning to the states. Only a harendous start in the BC kept him from getting a fair chance in the sprint..

Cajungator26 · #4 11-02-2008, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox

Henny Hughes was never a Godophin, or a Darley member. Someone with a better memory than me can probably tell us what member of the sheik family owned and raced him. He was a fantastic sprinter when he came back No ill affects wnen returning to the states. Only a harendous start in the BC kept him from getting a fair chance in the sprint..

I'm almost positive he was at one point a Darley member, but I could be wrong. When he came back to the states, he was owned by Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum. I agree with you on the bad start stopping him from winning ... that was terrible. Horse had no chance after that.

outofthebox · #5 11-02-2008, 02:40 PM

I remember seeing him win at Saratoga in yellow silks. I think he reaced for Zabeel racing stable..Im sure that has some affiliation to the Royal family of Dubai.

pgiaco · #6 11-02-2008, 02:43 PM

Zabeel is Sheikh Mo's son. Henny ran for Darley in the BC Juvenile after they purchased him from "Snake Oil" Biancone.

outofthebox · #7 11-02-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox

Henny Hughes was never a Godophin, or a Darley member. Someone with a better memory than me can probably tell us what member of the sheik family owned and raced him. He was a fantastic sprinter when he came back No ill affects wnen returning to the states. Only a harendous start in the BC kept him from getting a fair chance in the sprint..

Ok i was wrong about being a Darley runner, ran in the BC Juvenile at 2. When he did return he ran for Zabeel racing.

Handicappy · #8 11-02-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outofthebox

Henny Hughes was never a Godophin, or a Darley member. Someone with a better memory than me can probably tell us what member of the sheik family owned and raced him. He was a fantastic sprinter when he came back No ill affects wnen returning to the states. Only a harendous start in the BC kept him from getting a fair chance in the sprint..

Darley (Shiek Mo's minor league stable to Godolphin) and Zabeel which is owned by Sheik Mo's son. He did have ill effects as it took him about 7/8 months of training before he could get back racing. Which he did in early July at Monmouth. No injuries at all. He always broke a half step slow and got banged around so much he lost all chance. You can't break like that, against those guys and have a shot.

blackthroatedwind · #9 11-02-2008, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Of course if you are voting for Obama, then the facts obviously don't matter to you.

Well, that kind of idiocy really gives you credibility.

Handicappy · #10 11-02-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Well, that kind of idiocy really gives you credibility.

Idiocy? Does your response mean that you agree with the other two paragraphs I wrote? Or just picking off what you can to negate me. I'm not looking for credibility. But do you always have to be so negative? I was making a point. That's all.

blackthroatedwind · #11 11-02-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Handicappy

Idiocy? Does your response mean that you agree with the other two paragraphs I wrote? Or just picking off what you can to negate me. I'm not looking for credibility. But do you always have to be so negative? I was making a point. That's all.

What does someone's political views have to do with this argument?

You made the senseless comments....but I am negative.....and we are a tough crowd? How about taking a little responsibility for your own comments instead of trying to blame others for pointing out the ridiculousness of what you posted.

Fearless Leader · #12 11-02-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

What does someone's political views have to do with this argument?

You made the senseless comments....but I am negative.....and we are a tough crowd? How about taking a little responsibility for your own comments instead of trying to blame others for pointing out the ridiculousness of what you posted.

Yeah, Blackthroated, why do you have to always be so negative?

King Glorious · #13 11-02-2008, 08:22 PM

In all seriousness, how long have they been at it? I know before Street Sense, we heard all the time about a supposed "Juvenile Jinx". We also heard all about how a horse with only two starts at three couldn't win it. Now, we've had two in a row. How many years and how many starters did it take for Wayne Lukas before he finally won one? Just because something hasn't happened YET doesn't mean that it can't happen.

blackthroatedwind · #14 11-02-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

In all seriousness, how long have they been at it? I know before Street Sense, we heard all the time about a supposed "Juvenile Jinx". We also heard all about how a horse with only two starts at three couldn't win it. Now, we've had two in a row. How many years and how many starters did it take for Wayne Lukas before he finally won one? Just because something hasn't happened YET doesn't mean that it can't happen.

Here is the utter fallacy of your argument, since you either don't know it, or choose to ignore it. They have failed MISERABLY with their current plan. One horse after another disappears once sent to Dubai, and when they occasionally do reappear, they fail more often than not. And, not only that, they have shown unbelievably poor judgement in their purchases. Yes, occasionally they are successful, but when you throw money around the way they do, something has to stick. The bottom line is that their ROI is miserable.

Take a look at the pps for the 6th at Aqueduct on Wednesday. Or, look at the 5th from Aqueduct today....or the 3rd from last Wednesday. The cards at Aqueduct, virtually every Fall, are littered with their mistakes. And, do you think when they purchase these horses they are pointing for November in Ozone Park?

Handicappy · #15 11-02-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You had me up to the point where henny Hughes was a Derby contender and your ridiculous last sentence. Henny was a big talent, but he had distance limitations I think. Kiaran must have also. Remember his second in the Juvenile was around one turn.

You are right about his distance limits. I was only speaking about how difficult it is to predict how a 2 yr old will perform at 3. But you are right. And I don't think we need a political dialogue. I was only trying to have a little fun. MaN, you guys are a tough crowd. But if I had you that far, I am pleased. I don't put myself out there as an expret