Antibiotics

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by doll0608

[/b]

First of all most antibiotics take more than a few days to work. More than likely they are treating this horse with an antibiotic called baytril which can be given 5-7 days. Then yes of course you would want the horse to have some time after that for the horse to build up their immune system. It is all up to what the trainer and owner feel is the best for the horse. When we run a horse we usually scope them two works before they run to make sure they are clean and sometimes it can be as simple as a cycle of antibiotics and they are fine for the race.

it's funny how often horses are prescribed Baytril when Bayer specifically says it should not be given to horses, especially young horses. It can help enormously but there has been some information (without formal, objective studies) indicating it damages cartilage and can contribute to other joint abnormalities. It should really only be used in mature animals when other antibiotics won't work.

[FGFan]

Originally Posted by paisjpq

it's funny how often horses are prescribed Baytril when Bayer specifically says it should not be given to horses, especially young horses. It can help enormously but there has been some information (without formal, objective studies) indicating it damages cartilage and can contribute to other joint abnormalities. It should really only be used in mature animals when other antibiotics won't work.

Interesting horses aren't supposed to use Baytril, I didn't know that. But not uncommon to use some meds especially wormers for animals not prescribed for use...ie panacur, Ivomec. I think people have taken to using Baytril regularly as it is injectible.

But like you said, I am under the impression Baytril is a last resort anitbiotic, that it is classified so to say as a super antibiotic, so regular use of Baytril could render it ineffective when really needed. I rarely use Baytril and have tried to caution others that use it regularly that when they need it might not work. Also doesn't sound good to use antibiotics for a few days, just to me would render use of antibiotics when needed fairly ineffective.
Clavamox is an excellent broad spectrum fairly powerful antibiotic, don't know if that can be used on horses.

As far as I know antibiotics START to clear the system around 48 hours but it takes up to 5 to 7 days to completely be out of the system. Don't know anything about how it would compromise a test, but I'm sure it could.

[Perfect Million]

I don't post often---I mostly lurk, however I work for a racetrack vet, and have for more than 4 years, and I can't even count on one hand the number of horses that have been sick just in the last WEEK that went on antibiotics.

If it's just a touch of mucus or you're not in a huge hurry to get a horse to the races, you may choose to put your horse on Gentocin. If it's something severe, you would typically put your horse on Baytril. The typical dose on either drug is anywhere from 5-7 days depending on the severity of the infection in the horse.

We take care of one trainer that scopes EVERY horse after EVERY work (the owners get billed for 2 scopes max a month, not including post race scopes, which are always billed for) so that we can catch anything a horse may have as early as we can. If the horses are dirty, then we will put them on one of three drugs (Gentocin, Baytril, or Uniprim powder) depending on how far out a horse is from a race and the severity. If the horse is running off of the work (i.e. Not going to work again before the race, or won't be scoped again before the race) we will almost always put them on injectable anti-biotics.. We've gone as few as 4 days out (which to be perfectly honest, we don't really like, because you can't have them 100% in that time frame) but we ALWAYS will stop an antibiotic treatment no less than 48 hours out, to allow the semi-slump to have a bit of time to occur before raceday. I haven't noticed a big decrease in the placings of the horses that get it 48 hours before they run, as opposed to their last dose being 5-7 days out.

I read above something about they were just trying to stop whatever it was to make the 7 day withdrawl time, which doesn't exist. You CAN give antibiotics the day before and be perfectly safe from a testing standpoint. You may have a duller horse for giving it the day before, but it CAN be done. The only exceptions I know of are Pennicillin Procaine (which anything ending in -caine you can pretty much say you're looking at at LEAST 7 days if not more). Pottasium Penn is the only other big exception, but I can't say for sure it's because it cannot be given, as much as you'll mave a duller horse if you give it too close to a race or work.

As for the Baytril shouldn't be given to horses statement. Baytril is perfectly safe in horses. It is even listed in the equine drug book that one of my bosses carries in her truck. I get bored and I read it. In horses you use the Baytril 100. There are plenty of drugs/medications that are not specifically labelled for horses that have plenty of use for them. Some are labelled "For Use in Dogs" or are even labelled for human use.

In my (non-vet school educated) opinion, running a horse 10 days after beginning treatment is not dooming your horse to running a bad race. We had a runner just the other day that spent 5 days on Gentocin, and won at Churchill, and we had a filly come down from Delaware, FULL of mucus that we put on Baytril for 5 days and got beat a nostril 48 hours after her last dose.

[3kings]

Originally Posted by Perfect Million

I don't post often---I mostly lurk, however I work for a racetrack vet, and have for more than 4 years, and I can't even count on one hand the number of horses that have been sick just in the last WEEK that went on antibiotics.

If it's just a touch of mucus or you're not in a huge hurry to get a horse to the races, you may choose to put your horse on Gentocin. If it's something severe, you would typically put your horse on Baytril. The typical dose on either drug is anywhere from 5-7 days depending on the severity of the infection in the horse.

We take care of one trainer that scopes EVERY horse after EVERY work (the owners get billed for 2 scopes max a month, not including post race scopes, which are always billed for) so that we can catch anything a horse may have as early as we can. If the horses are dirty, then we will put them on one of three drugs (Gentocin, Baytril, or Uniprim powder) depending on how far out a horse is from a race and the severity. If the horse is running off of the work (i.e. Not going to work again before the race, or won't be scoped again before the race) we will almost always put them on injectable anti-biotics.. We've gone as few as 4 days out (which to be perfectly honest, we don't really like, because you can't have them 100% in that time frame) but we ALWAYS will stop an antibiotic treatment no less than 48 hours out, to allow the semi-slump to have a bit of time to occur before raceday. I haven't noticed a big decrease in the placings of the horses that get it 48 hours before they run, as opposed to their last dose being 5-7 days out.

I read above something about they were just trying to stop whatever it was to make the 7 day withdrawl time, which doesn't exist. You CAN give antibiotics the day before and be perfectly safe from a testing standpoint. You may have a duller horse for giving it the day before, but it CAN be done. The only exceptions I know of are Pennicillin Procaine (which anything ending in -caine you can pretty much say you're looking at at LEAST 7 days if not more). Pottasium Penn is the only other big exception, but I can't say for sure it's because it cannot be given, as much as you'll mave a duller horse if you give it too close to a race or work.

As for the Baytril shouldn't be given to horses statement. Baytril is perfectly safe in horses. It is even listed in the equine drug book that one of my bosses carries in her truck. I get bored and I read it. In horses you use the Baytril 100. There are plenty of drugs/medications that are not specifically labelled for horses that have plenty of use for them. Some are labelled "For Use in Dogs" or are even labelled for human use.

In my (non-vet school educated) opinion, running a horse 10 days after beginning treatment is not dooming your horse to running a bad race. We had a runner just the other day that spent 5 days on Gentocin, and won at Churchill, and we had a filly come down from Delaware, FULL of mucus that we put on Baytril for 5 days and got beat a nostril 48 hours after her last dose.

Thanks that was very informative.

[phystech]

Originally Posted by 3kings

Thanks that was very informative.

Yep - completely agree - great info from everyone!!! Thanks!!!!!