Midnight Lute Retired

[CSC]

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm not disagreeing on whether or not he will be successful, I just think he's more likely to be in Pennsylvania in five years than Kentucky.

I hear you, this horse has some put up some freakishly fast beyers, he also proved me wrong when he won Saturday. There is a market for sprinter sires, Lit De Justice, Orientate, and Speightstown just to name a few. He's a long lanky type certainly not built like the prototypical sprinter.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

I hear you, this horse has some put up some freakishly fast beyers, he also proved me wrong when he won Saturday. There is a market for sprinter sires, Lit De Justice, Orientate, and Speightstown just to name a few. He's a long lanky type certainly not built like the prototypical sprinter.

There is a market for Lit de Justice?

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is a market for Lit de Justice?

Sire of 192 winners from 250 starters (76.8%), 14 SWs, earners of over $15,969,000 (Register page from last fall)? Yes, there is a market for him; not those who breed sales yearlings, but those who want solid, blue-collar racehorses are using him.

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

but those who want solid, blue-collar racehorses ....

That's what I'm talking about - the resurgence of the race horse!

[Quiet Chris]

I think Midnight Lute is a great gamble as a sire. I really don't think he is just a sprinter. I think this horse could run all day, but he never got the chance.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

Sire of 192 winners from 250 starters (76.8%), 14 SWs, earners of over $15,969,000 (Register page from last fall)? Yes, there is a market for him; not those who breed sales yearlings, but those who want solid, blue-collar racehorses are using him.

He stands for $5k in California. Not exactly the market that appeals to most.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is a market for Lit de Justice?

He's got a few horses running in North America from what I have seen, he's probably turned out to be only a mediocre sire, however I do see his name pop up seemingly alot in the past performances. Yeah his market value is on the downside, I'll concede that point.

[slotdirt]

Hey, I think Real Quiet got a raw deal as a sire for the most part, so I hope Midnight Lute does well in the shed. That being said, I have my doubts.

[Zaf]

Hope he does well, certainly gave me some thrills as a race fan

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by CSC

He's got a few horses running in North America from what I have seen, he's probably turned out to be only a mediocre sire, however I do see his name pop up seemingly alot in the past performances. Yeah his market value is on the downside, I'll concede that point.

He is ranked 13th on the stallion list in california this year. He was 15th last year. In California. I will allow you to draw your own conclusions.

[ELA]

I would have to think -- after all of the discussion about Big Brown, him having bad feet, and passing that on to his offspring, etc. -- that people here would be (more) concerned about Midnight Lute as a stallion. With this horse, his problems went far beyond "just bad feet" and that is much more to be concerned about -- right?

Thanks.

Eric

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ELA

I would have to think -- after all of the discussion about Big Brown, him having bad feet, and passing that on to his offspring, etc. -- that people here would be (more) concerned about Midnight Lute as a stallion. With this horse, his problems went far beyond "just bad feet" and that is much more to be concerned about -- right?

Thanks.

Eric

I dont like him much. His breathing issues are troublesome, his pedigree doesnt scream stallion, the fact he has run I think 14 times in 3 years isnt great, and honestly closing sprinters are typically overrated as stallions. think Lit de justice! or Rubiano or Aldebaran. Plus he is too big. But he also isnt going to stand for $75k like Big Brown is either.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I dont like him much. His breathing issues are troublesome, his pedigree doesnt scream stallion, the fact he has run I think 14 times in 3 years isnt great, and honestly closing sprinters are typically overrated as stallions. think Lit de justice! or Rubiano or Aldebaran. Plus he is too big. But he also isnt going to stand for $75k like Big Brown is either.

You really think more then 20 mares will really pay 75k.. I suggest if he sees 125 mares 80% will be covered at substantially below 75k..

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

He is ranked 13th on the stallion list in california this year. He was 15th last year. In California. I will allow you to draw your own conclusions.

His lack of popularity out East shows from his crop sizes - first one 60, then 51, then 64, then 52 in the year his first foals would be 2yos. Fell to 17 the next year and to 10 from his last year in Kentucky. His first Calbred crop are 4yos this year, all 36 of them. Raw numbers, like sire lists, reward quantity, not quality.

It always amazes me how people expect horses who were sprinters to sire a lot of 2yo winners, even if they themselves didn't really excell until they were more mature, especially when, like Lit de Justice (and Midnight Lute?), they were bred to be stayers.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

His lack of popularity out East shows from his crop sizes - first one 60, then 51, then 64, then 52 in the year his first foals would be 2yos. Fell to 17 the next year and to 10 from his last year in Kentucky. His first Calbred crop are 4yos this year, all 36 of them. Raw numbers, like sire lists, reward quantity, not quality.

It always amazes me how people expect horses who were sprinters to sire a lot of 2yo winners, even if they themselves didn't really excell until they were more mature, especially when, like Lit de Justice (and Midnight Lute?), they were bred to be stayers.

He is 18 and has never had more than a grade 3 winner and I think he only had 2 or 3 of those.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

His lack of popularity out East shows from his crop sizes - first one 60, then 51, then 64, then 52 in the year his first foals would be 2yos. Fell to 17 the next year and to 10 from his last year in Kentucky. His first Calbred crop are 4yos this year, all 36 of them. Raw numbers, like sire lists, reward quantity, not quality.

It always amazes me how people expect horses who were sprinters to sire a lot of 2yo winners, even if they themselves didn't really excell until they were more mature, especially when, like Lit de Justice (and Midnight Lute?), they were bred to be stayers.

Didn't Adena Springs have him first? They have a deep roster of Stallians that they kept adding to and he probably fell through the cracks when he didn't produce anything of significance.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by CSC

I hear you, this horse has some put up some freakishly fast beyers, he also proved me wrong when he won Saturday. There is a market for sprinter sires, Lit De Justice, Orientate, and Speightstown just to name a few. He's a long lanky type certainly not built like the prototypical sprinter.

Orientate and Lit de Justice were more than pure sprinters like Speightstown. They both had some success at 8f or more as younger horses before they were trained to be 6-7f furlong sprinters: Lit de Justice won a mile handicap, was second a head in a listed mile race, and third by 2l. in a G3 at 8f in France, while Orientate won the listed Indiana Derby (8.5f) and Sir Beaufort S (8f T) at 3. They just weren't G1 quality at longer distances.