Help Me Out - How Will

[Mortimer]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

look. i essentially wound up agreeing with toast. there were no winners here.

You










thud

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by hi_im_god

i'm not hard headed or hearted. but i think the idea a minimum wage helps the poor is flawed.

I think if you use common sense you would see that what would happen is the exact opposite of what was described early in the thread. Working single mothers would lose jobs to teenagers that would work for much less(because they often have less expenses.)The end result of killing the minimum wage is that teenagers, who often are only looking for supplemental income to pay for cars, parties, etc. take work away from those who are trying to pay the rent or support a family. Face the facts, we have guys getting women pregnant, and moving on to the next woman that craves a badboy. Do you really want to skimp on the salary of the one person in charge of raising that child? Your only shot at avoiding a punk being raised lies with her. I think we can agree if she starts on welfare, then she'll probably have another kid. I also think part of a country's overall reputation around the world lies in how it's worst off live. People want to live here. They want to travel here. Sure, we could treat people like they did at the end of the 19th century(your "market" crap that doesn't work..it's been tried.) Most of the stuff that Conservatives or cheap Independent types want to do have been tried, and they caused poverty. We can do it again, and you'll get the same results. Believe it or not, these things came about as a solution to a problem. What you want to do is try something that has been proven to create poverty(market driven stuff.) That abuse of workers at the end of the 19th century etc. was exactly what you would like to do. Fortunately others don't want to create that poverty. You think you want just 2 classes, but I doubt you would find it as great as you think. Try Haiti etc.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

I don't see how doing away with the minimum wage would do anything but turn us into the type of countries that you say companies leave to go to. You really want to become Mexico etc? So classy!! Can't wait.As far as the EITC goes, it's adjusted for inflation, and the minimum wage isn't. They compliment each other. As far as your complaint about small businesses not being able to afford it etc., I think much larger tax break incentives need to be involved in the situation you're talking about 8-10 low paid employees. The minimum wage is necessary. We need to be more creative in helping the smaller businesses afford it.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

If you want a success story using slightly increased salaries for "manual" labor, try the hamburger chain most of us like a lot out here(IN-N-OUT.) They get high quality from their employees.That work is considered unskilled, but try the food at Jack n the box. O.K.? It may be unskilled, but it's important that it be done right. They pay a little more, but the increased results they get are due to that increase in pay. If you don't believe me, wait until they get taken over, and reduce their pay. Their prices aren't more than places that pay their employees less. That's because they are at least twice as busy, because their employees are putting out better food.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I think if you use common sense you would see that what would happen is the exact opposite of what was described early in the thread. Working single mothers would lose jobs to teenagers that would work for much less(because they often have less expenses.)The end result of killing the minimum wage is that teenagers, who often are only looking for supplemental income to pay for cars, parties, etc. take work away from those who are trying to pay the rent or support a family. Face the facts, we have guys getting women pregnant, and moving on to the next woman that craves a badboy. Do you really want to skimp on the salary of the one person in charge of raising that child? Your only shot at avoiding a punk being raised lies with her. I think we can agree if she starts on welfare, then she'll probably have another kid. I also think part of a country's overall reputation around the world lies in how it's worst off live. People want to live here. They want to travel here. Sure, we could treat people like they did at the end of the 19th century(your "market" crap that doesn't work..it's been tried.) Most of the stuff that Conservatives or cheap Independent types want to do have been tried, and they caused poverty. We can do it again, and you'll get the same results. Believe it or not, these things came about as a solution to a problem. What you want to do is try something that has been proven to create poverty(market driven stuff.) That abuse of workers at the end of the 19th century etc. was exactly what you would like to do. Fortunately others don't want to create that poverty. You think you want just 2 classes, but I doubt you would find it as great as you think. Try Haiti etc.

and i believe that the poor here have a pretty high standard of living, esp compared to the poor in other countries.
most poor have a car, tvs, etc. there isn't anyone starving here, is there? unless it's someone who is clinically insane and living on the street-who refuses to get help, or really is incapable of seeking help.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and i believe that the poor here have a pretty high standard of living, esp compared to the poor in other countries.
most poor have a car, tvs, etc. there isn't anyone starving here, is there? unless it's someone who is clinically insane and living on the street-who refuses to get help, or really is incapable of seeking help.

When they get a raise in the minimum wage, they aren't getting some sort of raise in their standard of living. That's the part that isn't understood. It's not the reason for raising the minimum wage. It's done to try to keep their standard of living from going further down. If you keep having inflation (without raising the minimum wage,) then you're lowering their standard of living.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

When they get a raise in the minimum wage, they aren't getting some sort of raise in their standard of living. That's the part that isn't understood. It's not the reason for raising the minimum wage. It's done to try to keep their standard of living from going further down. If you keep having inflation (without raising the minimum wage,) then you're lowering their standard of living.

that's very true. so what's the solution?
i just think that owners are going to make what they've decided they're worth, and that they will pass on layoffs and price increases to offset increases in operating expenses. i just don't think an owner will give himself a cut just so his employees can make more. now, it would be nice-but i just don't think it's realistic.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that's very true. so what's the solution?
i just think that owners are going to make what they've decided they're worth, and that they will pass on layoffs and price increases to offset increases in operating expenses. i just don't think an owner will give himself a cut just so his employees can make more. now, it would be nice-but i just don't think it's realistic.

The employees aren't going to make more(they are gunna get the same level of real buying dollars.) So, while his other expenses go up, he wants to pay his employees less real money(he wants to make them pay for inflation.) The solution is to do what he does when any other cost goes up due to inflation. I don't know why this cost going up is any different. I guess it's because the people involved are easy to take advantage of, and utility cost increases etc. aren't as easy to avoid. As I said before, for small businesses that actually do have margins that make it difficult to pay the minimum wage(evidently many in rural areas) appropriate tax incentives could be used. I'm not for increasing these workers standard of living with employers money. I think we need try to keep their standard of living the same. That hasn't been happening, because we don't raise the federal minimum wage very often.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

that's very true. so what's the solution?

If it's any kind of food company, I think the Chinese would suggest the addition of Melamine.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

If it's any kind of food company, I think the Chinese would suggest the addition of Melamine.

yeah, that worked well for them.

[Mortimer]

Mortimer is on an ignore list. He mainly comes here to talk about other posters on the site. To Mortimer, the subjects being written about are not nearly as important as who is doing the writing. To him, that's the subject.

Yuh-Hi.....Bill Lumber..I mean SkidsMom here. Now... really don't mean the above bull phooey. I started up something I couldn't finish with Mortimer and wounded up in the friggin' shredder. And so---I hide from further confrontation by letting everyone in the world AND the horsey they rode in on AND their uncle that I have him on ignore........and I make my muggy face at him with this outrageous signature.




Oh boy.

I wish I would just keep my big mouth shut.