Now I Have Zero Respect Left for Shirreffs

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am not saying he is an outstanding choice but Curlins campaign has hardly been great and Zenyatta beat only fillies. You may not agree he should win but it is pretty hard to keep him from being in the discussion.

Of course he belongs in the conversation and making an argument for him isn't hard.

I couldn't care less who wins HOY. I am concerned with who wins horse races in the future.....not awards.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Of course he belongs in the conversation and making an argument for him isn't hard.

I couldn't care less who wins HOY. I am concerned with who wins horse races in the future.....not awards.

well I guess running in the BC is now a must as all the hot air i hear about the award only contains 2 names. I never thought i would be defending big Brown but he has accomplished as much or more than the other two though i would get physically sick if i actually watched the Eclipse awards show regardless of who won.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

well I guess running in the BC is now a must as all the hot air i hear about the award only contains 2 names. I never thought i would be defending big Brown but he has accomplished as much or more than the other two though i would get physically sick if i actually watched the Eclipse awards show regardless of who won.

I would imagine it has something to do with his competition for the award this season, maybe in a year when Azeri won it he would have a great shot but there are two horses who had tremendous years. Frankly winning 2/3rds of the triple crown, I dont think it carries the same weight as it once did in people minds.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I would imagine it has something to do with his competition for the award this season, maybe in a year when Azeri won it he would have a great shot but there are two horses who had tremendous years. Frankly winning 2/3rds of the triple crown, I dont think it carries the same weight as it once did in people minds.

Curlin had a tremendous year? You obviously have low standards. Zenyatta had a good year but beat only fillies and outside of 2 races very forgettable fillies. Since when is the KY Derby and Preakness and Haskell not big enough races?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Curlin had a tremendous year? You obviously have low standards. Zenyatta had a good year but beat only fillies and outside of 2 races very forgettable fillies. Since when is the KY Derby and Preakness and Haskell not big enough races?

The names on the races don't make the races though. If your competition sucked, it sucked. Since when were the JCGC and Woodward not big enough? None of these races are good races just because the name says they are. The Haskell was no better than the Woodward. The Derby and Preakness were no better than Dubai and the JCGC. The Florida Derby was no better than the Foster.

I was just talking with someone and told them that I come from the school of thought that says you have to knock out the champ. If you let it come down to a decision against the champ, you lose. Well, BB didn't knock out the champ on any scorecard. The only thing that could be said is that he tied him on a couple.

Quality of races won-draw.
Number of grade ones-draw.
Speed figures-Curlin by a lot.

I'd even give Curlin the edge in quality of competition faced. Wanderin Boy, Well Armed, and AP Arrow.....they aren't exactly a who's who of racing. But I'd take them in a landslide over Coal Play, Smooth Air, Eight Belles, Denis of Cork, Anak Nakal, and Tomcito.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The names on the races don't make the races though. If your competition sucked, it sucked. Since when were the JCGC and Woodward not big enough? None of these races are good races just because the name says they are. The Haskell was no better than the Woodward. The Derby and Preakness were no better than Dubai and the JCGC. The Florida Derby was no better than the Foster.

I was just talking with someone and told them that I come from the school of thought that says you have to knock out the champ. If you let it come down to a decision against the champ, you lose. Well, BB didn't knock out the champ on any scorecard. The only thing that could be said is that he tied him on a couple.

Quality of races won-draw.
Number of grade ones-draw.
Speed figures-Curlin by a lot.

I'd even give Curlin the edge in quality of competition faced. Wanderin Boy, Well Armed, and AP Arrow.....they aren't exactly a who's who of racing. But I'd take them in a landslide over Coal Play, Smooth Air, Eight Belles, Denis of Cork, Anak Nakal, and Tomcito.

Dubai doesnt count. speed figures are now part of the process? You just used AP Arrow in a positive way. I give up. Andy is right. If this qualifies as a good thing than it simply isnt worth trying.

[CSC]

As long as it's Big Brown or Curlin, I don't care which one it is. The HOY has to be able to beat Curlin or Big Brown if they were to meet in a championship race, not just be competitive but be able to beat them with reasonable certainty, something I can't say for sure Zenyatta would do by her limited competition this yr. Perfect record does not equal HOY to me, rather than best horse should.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Dubai doesnt count. speed figures are now part of the process? You just used AP Arrow in a positive way. I give up. Andy is right. If this qualifies as a good thing than it simply isnt worth trying.

Ok so let me get this straight. The Dubai World Cup is for all intents and purposes, an American race. But you say it doesn't count. They have given the championships to numerous European horses that have come over and run once and won because their European records supported it but when one of ours runs overseas, it doesn't count? How fair is it that Singspiel has a championship without winning a single race in the United States but won anyway because his foreign record supported it but Curlin's race in Dubai doesn't count. If Curlin's Dubai race doesn't count, then the accomplishments overseas of no other horses count and some Eclipse awards need to be rescinded. Like I've said before, I don't disagree with anyone that says that the criteria of the awards should be changed to say that a horse has to start at least 4-5 times here and that his foreign record isn't to be considered. Won't disagree at all. But until they make that change, under the present criteria and with precedent clearly having been set over and over again, Dubai absolutely does count.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Curlin had a tremendous year? You obviously have low standards. Zenyatta had a good year but beat only fillies and outside of 2 races very forgettable fillies. Since when is the KY Derby and Preakness and Haskell not big enough races?

And who did Big Brown beat?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

And who did Big Brown beat?

to be fair, he beat everyone he faced. except for kent desormeaux.