Now I Have Zero Respect Left for Shirreffs

King Glorious · #1 10-27-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

"Obviously that decision would be up to the Mosses as well, but it really goes against my nature to run fillies against males," said Shirreffs. "I've never done it during my career. The boys play a lot rougher than the fillies do and I wouldn't want to put her through that. To me, the risk would not be worth the potential reward."
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=3663674

I'm with KG on this one. Shirreffs plays it very, very safe with her (and has done a terrific job, no question). But he seems to be saying, "She beat all the best fillies, but any colt would have been too much for her because they play too rough." By that standard, Goldikova should be HOTY.

Of course, Zenyatta won't care either way. Neither will Curlin.

If according to his own words, the risk is not worth the reward......then he shouldn't receive the reward. Come on.

10 pnt move up · #2 10-27-2008, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

If according to his own words, the risk is not worth the reward......then he shouldn't receive the reward. Come on.

You dont understand the award.

The award goes to the horse who accomplished the most in the sport for the calender year, not who was the "best" horse. The two are often synonymous but not always.

Kotoshaan was horse of the year, I highly doubt he was a better horse then Bertrando or Best Pal, but they ran in separate divisions and their accomplishments are weighted separately.

dalakhani · #3 10-27-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You dont understand the award.

The award goes to the horse who accomplished the most in the sport for the calender year, not who was the "best" horse. The two are often synonymous but not always.

Kotoshaan was horse of the year, I highly doubt he was a better horse then Bertrando or Best Pal, but they ran in separate divisions and their accomplishments are weighted separately.

Hmmmmmm...you sure about that?

I have debated this many times and I always thought it was for the "best" horse to run in North America. Is what you are saying written anywhere? It would really put an end to a lot of silly debate.

blackthroatedwind · #4 10-27-2008, 06:20 PM

There are no rules, but he is right, it is pretty much based on accomplishment.

dalakhani · #5 10-27-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

There are no rules, but he is right, it is pretty much based on accomplishment.

is that for any eclipse award or just Horse of the year?

3kings · #6 10-27-2008, 06:52 PM

I don't think Sherriffs should give the Eight Belles incident as a reason for not running against the boys. He and the Moss's thought the Ladies Classic was the right spot and that is their perogative. Using the tragic accident, as the reasoning, is just a cheap way out. They've been in the game too long to believe this themselves.

SCUDSBROTHER · #7 10-27-2008, 07:04 PM

That was a pretty big field in the Classic. She hasn't been facing that many horses in her races. I think that would of concerned me more than the quality of the field.

King Glorious · #8 10-27-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

You dont understand the award.

The award goes to the horse who accomplished the most in the sport for the calender year, not who was the "best" horse. The two are often synonymous but not always.

Kotoshaan was horse of the year, I highly doubt he was a better horse then Bertrando or Best Pal, but they ran in separate divisions and their accomplishments are weighted separately.

The idea is basically for the best dirt router in the country. Usually, that's an older male horse. The door gets opened up to others when there is no clear outstanding older dirt male. That was the case when Azeri won it and when Lady's Secret won it. Same as when Kotashaan won it. There usually has to be a strong resume compiled throughout the year but that's not a requirement. As I've mentioned before, Arazi was one of the three HOY finalists in 1991 and that was after winning only the BC Juvenile during his year. This year, Curlin has compiled a good enough resume to win it. It's not the strongest ever presented but it is good enough. I don't think Zenyatta has come close to accomplishing the most in the sport this year. The ironic thing is that there's no doubt in my mind that she's actually better than Curlin this year.

My argument is not whether or not she should win the award. I wouldn't vote for her but I can totally understand those that would. My point is having the opportunity to make your case but chosing not to take it and then campaigning in the media is weak.

10 pnt move up · #9 10-27-2008, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I don't think Zenyatta has come close to accomplishing the most in the sport this year. .

I think that statement is very debatable and thus why it will be a close vote, that in the end Curlin will win, for various reasons that are not as clear as one would imagine.

King Glorious · #10 10-27-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

I think that statement is very debatable and thus why it will be a close vote, that in the end Curlin will win, for various reasons that are not as clear as one would imagine.

It is debatable, I agree. Like I said, I feel like she's a better horse than Curlin is. But she compiled a record beating up on the same stiffs over and over again on courses that she obviously loves. It was great that she ventured out and took the Apple Blossom but that wasn't enough to offset what Curlin did. I hate giving it to Curlin because I don't think he's as good as her or even as good as he was last year. But to venture to Dubai, run in Kentucky, run at Saratoga, run at Belmont, and then even though his trainer wasn't comfortable doing it and could have stayed home and clinched HOY, they came out to California to try it. When Big Brown retired, Curlin had it clinched but he didn't take the back door in. They tried to cement it. Zenyatta shouldn't win the award ONLY because Curlin lost it and especially if she wasn't the one that beat him.

Cannon Shell · #11 10-27-2008, 07:03 PM

Can someone explain to me why either is more deserving than Big Brown?

Cannon Shell · #12 10-27-2008, 07:07 PM

Curlins year -1st Stepher Foster /1st Woodward/ 1st Gold Cup/ 2nd Man o War/4th BC Classic
Zenyatta - 1st a bunch of synthetic races against pretty pathetic competition/ 1st apple Blossom/ 1st BC Distaff

BB- 1st FL Derby/1st KY Derby/ 1st Preakness/ 1st Haskell/1st made up turf stake

he should be in the discussion

kgar311 · #13 10-28-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

The idea is basically for the best dirt router in the country. Usually, that's an older male horse. The door gets opened up to others when there is no clear outstanding older dirt male. That was the case when Azeri won it and when Lady's Secret won it. Same as when Kotashaan won it. There usually has to be a strong resume compiled throughout the year but that's not a requirement. As I've mentioned before, Arazi was one of the three HOY finalists in 1991 and that was after winning only the BC Juvenile during his year. This year, Curlin has compiled a good enough resume to win it. It's not the strongest ever presented but it is good enough. I don't think Zenyatta has come close to accomplishing the most in the sport this year. The ironic thing is that there's no doubt in my mind that she's actually better than Curlin this year.

.

??? Wasnt Lady's Secret beating up on the boys all year long in '86

Kasept · #14 10-28-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

??? Wasnt Lady's Secret beating up on the boys all year long in '86

She won one race in 4 tries against males in '86: The Whitney over Ends Well and Fuzzy... She was 2nd in the Woodward to Precisionist (by 5L); 3rd in the Iselin to Roo Art and Precisionist (3.5L) and 3rd in the Met Mile to Garthorn and Love That Mac (1.25L).

blackthroatedwind · #15 10-28-2008, 11:16 AM

Don't start knocking Fuzzy.

Turkoman was fourth in that Met Mile.

kgar311 · #16 10-28-2008, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept

She won one race in 4 tries against males in '86: The Whitney over Ends Well and Fuzzy... She was 2nd in the Woodward to Precisionist (by 5L); 3rd in the Iselin to Roo Art and Precisionist (3.5L) and 3rd in the Met Mile to Garthorn and Love That Mac (1.25L).

I think she finished ahead of Personal Flag in the Woodward.

blackthroatedwind · #17 10-28-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

I think she finished ahead of Personal Flag in the Woodward.

He wasn't exactly a superstar ( and he was one of my personal favorites ). What were his big wins....the Queen's County and a three horse blanket finish in the Widener?

CSC · #18 10-28-2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

??? Wasnt Lady's Secret beating up on the boys all year long in '86

Dance Smartly not only beat the boys in her undefeated season but she also won the triple crown, granted it was in Canada.

Probably the best horse she beat that year was Fly So Free who is still probably better than anything Zenyatta faced this year. If she couldn't win HOY that year where Black Tie Affair was the top Hdcp horse then I would have to think the precedent has been set that a filly/mare shouldn't unless by default as Azeri did.

King Glorious · #19 10-28-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgar311

??? Wasnt Lady's Secret beating up on the boys all year long in '86

As was pointed out, no she wasn't beating up on them all year. She beat them once and ran a couple of other decent races against them but make no mistake about it.....if Precisionist or Turkoman win the Classic, they win HOY. Lady's Secret won it because Skywalker won the Classic.

kgar311 · #20 10-28-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

As was pointed out, no she wasn't beating up on them all year. She beat them once and ran a couple of other decent races against them but make no mistake about it.....if Precisionist or Turkoman win the Classic, they win HOY. Lady's Secret won it because Skywalker won the Classic.

I think winning the Whitney by 5 is beating up the the boys.