Oracle - Songster

I also think that Songster can upset Henny in the Kins Bishop. He was just dead short last time and if he fires his "a" race he can beat Henny. Hes kinda like the "Bluegrass Cat" of the King's Bishop.

[Scav]

"And I find it beyond incredible that anyone who claims to be an expert could say that the horse ran as well yesterday as he did in his prior races. I have no knowledge of his sheet numbers or Beyer from yesterday's race but its 1-9 that he takes a significant drop in figs on Rags, Thoro graph, and Beyer. To make it sound like he ran his typical race and simply got beaten to me is as far fetched as the tampa bay Devil rays winning the World Series this year.
"

"We simply disagree on that race. His opinion that Songster wasn't as good as advertised in general is one with merit that I happen to agree with. You may remember how gleeful I was when Bling got what I felt was a bad ride and I was lucky to have Songster get a perfect trip that day.
That certainly is a different issue however than the fact that the field he was facing yesterday was less than stellar to say the least. We disagree that he ran the same race as he had always run and I think that when the figs come out you will see that he droppewd severely on both sheet companies and on the beyers."

Ah and the one I was looking for

08-01-2006, 03:05 PM
oracle80
The Curragh Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saratoga
Posts: 2,429

Hes either a liar or incompetent in this case. Once the figs come out if he has indeed run his usual race I will retract every statement and offer Mea Culpas. So if the figs come out lower will that be an indication that he did NOT run his typical race? Or is it just that its that way because you say so?

Originally Posted by Scav

"And I find it beyond incredible that anyone who claims to be an expert could say that the horse ran as well yesterday as he did in his prior races. I have no knowledge of his sheet numbers or Beyer from yesterday's race but its 1-9 that he takes a significant drop in figs on Rags, Thoro graph, and Beyer. To make it sound like he ran his typical race and simply got beaten to me is as far fetched as the tampa bay Devil rays winning the World Series this year.
"

"We simply disagree on that race. His opinion that Songster wasn't as good as advertised in general is one with merit that I happen to agree with. You may remember how gleeful I was when Bling got what I felt was a bad ride and I was lucky to have Songster get a perfect trip that day.
That certainly is a different issue however than the fact that the field he was facing yesterday was less than stellar to say the least. We disagree that he ran the same race as he had always run and I think that when the figs come out you will see that he droppewd severely on both sheet companies and on the beyers."

Ah and the one I was looking for

08-01-2006, 03:05 PM
oracle80
The Curragh Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saratoga
Posts: 2,429

Hes either a liar or incompetent in this case. Once the figs come out if he has indeed run his usual race I will retract every statement and offer Mea Culpas. So if the figs come out lower will that be an indication that he did NOT run his typical race? Or is it just that its that way because you say so?

Hey Scav, the horse was short. A clocker I talked to told me as much the day after the race. Now if you want his number you can feel free to tell a guy who has trained grade one winners and watches every horses work every day that you know more sitting in your house in Chicago, pardon me while I trust in the other guy more ok?

[Scav]

Just saying, these were things that you said and I said I would note when we got the sheet number, that is all, he paired exactly, three in a row now actually

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Scav

"And I find it beyond incredible that anyone who claims to be an expert could say that the horse ran as well yesterday as he did in his prior races. I have no knowledge of his sheet numbers or Beyer from yesterday's race but its 1-9 that he takes a significant drop in figs on Rags, Thoro graph, and Beyer. To make it sound like he ran his typical race and simply got beaten to me is as far fetched as the tampa bay Devil rays winning the World Series this year.
"

"We simply disagree on that race. His opinion that Songster wasn't as good as advertised in general is one with merit that I happen to agree with. You may remember how gleeful I was when Bling got what I felt was a bad ride and I was lucky to have Songster get a perfect trip that day.
That certainly is a different issue however than the fact that the field he was facing yesterday was less than stellar to say the least. We disagree that he ran the same race as he had always run and I think that when the figs come out you will see that he droppewd severely on both sheet companies and on the beyers."

Ah and the one I was looking for

08-01-2006, 03:05 PM
oracle80
The Curragh Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saratoga
Posts: 2,429

Hes either a liar or incompetent in this case. Once the figs come out if he has indeed run his usual race I will retract every statement and offer Mea Culpas. So if the figs come out lower will that be an indication that he did NOT run his typical race? Or is it just that its that way because you say so?

I'm still waiting for oracle to "retract every statement and offer Mea Culpas". I suspect I will have a long wait.

Oracle spent an entire thread calling Albertrani a liar. Let me see. A guy says he's going to do something ("offer Mea Culpas"), but then doesn't do it. Who's the liar?

Just to be clear, I have nothing against oracle. I think oracle is one of the most knowledgeable people on Derby Trail--there's no question about that, IMO. But he has more than a little problem admitting he was wrong.

--Dunbar

[Nostradamus]

I don't think Songster or Bluegrass Cat is what people think they are. In my opinion they are both nice horses running against two monsters. I don't see either race being close. HH and Bernardini walk in both. I could see HH and Bernardini both challenging stakes records.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

You guys are nuts(to try and predict what is coming in there.)It's like trying to write a letter while on a spinning tea cup ride.

Originally Posted by Dunbar

I'm still waiting for oracle to "retract every statement and offer Mea Culpas". I suspect I will have a long wait.

Oracle spent an entire thread calling Albertrani a liar. Let me see. A guy says he's going to do something ("offer Mea Culpas"), but then doesn't do it. Who's the liar?

Just to be clear, I have nothing against oracle. I think oracle is one of the most knowledgeable people on Derby Trail--there's no question about that, IMO. But he has more than a little problem admitting he was wrong.

--Dunbar

I am not wrong. And the fact that the guy can't get arrested at the biggest meet in the world, that everyone points for, bears that out.
Lemme ask you Dunbar, how many people here were waiting for him to win a race since I ranted about him to say I told you so. You pathetic swines, not one win since then. Guys 1- for the meet with a zillion dollars in horseflesh under his barn. Hes had a horrible meet, horrible.
Many trainers have had similiar slumps when they get their first "big horse". I guess the theory is that so much worry and time and stress go into the big horse that perhaps the others aren't quite as important. Whatever it is, you swines have been waiting four weeks to say I told you so, and he hasn't won one yet at THE MEET that matters more than any other.
Court Folly couldn't get close to lesser horses in his prior efforts, and you want me to concede that all of a sudden he has the talent and moreso, of Too Much Bling. Sorry, I just can't do so. Its not probable or logical.
I hope TA turns it around, hope he does well with his horses, but his meet has been an abject disaster and while you all have been waiting to say "I told you so" after a winner, you have failed.

[blackthroatedwind]

I said Songster ran his race in the Amsterdam, especially in light of moving too soon, and predicted the numbers would prove just that. As was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, you promised to retract your statements if that proved the case. Well, it has now proven the case, and yet you offer no apologies ( when you KNOW they are warranted ).

Really, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but right is right. As the imfamous Doc once said to me - in the heat of battle of course - BE A MAN!


I already know you have a sense of humor.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I said Songster ran his race in the Amsterdam, especially in light of moving too soon, and predicted the numbers would prove just that. As was pointed out elsewhere in this thread, you promised to retract your statements if that proved the case. Well, it has now proven the case, and yet you offer no apologies ( when you KNOW they are warranted ).

Really, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but right is right. As the imfamous Doc once said to me - in the heat of battle of course - BE A MAN!


I already know you have a sense of humor.

SO now Court Folly is as good as Too Much Bling?
Tell you what, you look me in the eye and tell me that a guy with all that horseflesh in his barn should be 1-meet. Go ahead. I know you can't do it. Is it possible, fathomable, that perhaps the pressure and responsibility of training his first big horse(and what a HORSE, at that) could have caused a letdown with the other horses. Not saying if I were in his shoes that I wouldn't have done the same. Its understandable. But fact is, the guy STINKS up here. Now, if you think its just me you might wanna note that Dave Grening mentioned "the slump" in his article today. And as a guy who certainly is in tune with "sharp guys" don't tell me you haven't heard comment about how his horses are running.
I suppose you just can't wait to play his horses these days? I think not. Hes been an auto toss for quite some time now. As have a few others up here this meet. I'd list them, but I'm quite sure you know who they are.

Ok I'm very sorry and apologize for attacking a guy who trains for the Sheikh who is currently 1- meet up here.
Hes better than that, I know he is. But right now he is just awful, as bad as bad gets.

[blackthroatedwind]

You're missing the point and being silly. Just do what you promised you would do and then I will be happy to have the other discussion.

Certainly if I can say on TV, twice in fact, that I was foolish ( actually i called myself stupid ) for saying some of the things I said about Coa then you can find a way to keep your word in an internet chat room.

[Gander]

LOL! I just passed by the guy termed a "midget" while running. He was smoking a cigar that was bigger than he was.

Originally Posted by Gander

LOL! I just passed by the guy termed a "midget" while running. He was smoking a cigar that was bigger than he was.

LOL!!!! Was he wearing white pants?

Originally Posted by oracle80

I also think that Songster can upset Henny in the Kins Bishop. He was just dead short last time and if he fires his "a" race he can beat Henny.

Henny Hughes is far too scary as a betting proposition.

He's enormously talented ... but has had only one race in 10 months ... has never won a stakes race beyond 6f ... and is a serious candidate for a bounce or a breakdown.

Songster is not as brilliant ... but has far more depth ... and the needed experience and conditioning to succeed in a trying test.

If Henny pulls this one off ... he's truly special.

[LARHAGE]

I see Songster and Henny going at it early, with this size of a field I would think the possibility of an upset is far more likely here than in the Travers. I'm not sure yet who I like to nail the top two, but I surely envision that scenario.