Lava Man

Gander · #1 08-22-2006, 06:00 PM

His race Sunday was brilliant. He dueled through very honest fractions and opened up on the field and had plenty left to hold off Good Reward.

Thats his 4th grade 1 win of the year. 6 in total, 2 on turf. Unbelievably consistent animal who still gets knocked on here for beating Perfect Drift, Magnum, Super Frolic, and a few others who I guess are a cut below horses like Flower Alley, who gets big time notoriety for beatng Bellamy Road off a huge layoff and the ridiculously overrated Roman Ruler.

So I guess he wont be validated until he wins outside of CA, meaning the BC Classic. Okay, so if Flower Alley wins the Woodward that wont count for anything because NY is his homestate and he only beat Sun King, who if you think is a world beater, well then I have a professional baseball team in Alaska waiting for you to buy.

LARHAGE · #2 08-22-2006, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

His race Sunday was brilliant. He dueled through very honest fractions and opened up on the field and had plenty left to hold off Good Reward.

Thats his 4th grade 1 win of the year. 6 in total, 2 on turf. Unbelievably consistent animal who still gets knocked on here for beating Perfect Drift, Magnum, Super Frolic, and a few others who I guess are a cut below horses like Flower Alley, who gets big time notoriety for beatng Bellamy Road off a huge layoff and the ridiculously overrated Roman Ruler.

So I guess he wont be validated until he wins outside of CA, meaning the BC Classic. Okay, so if Flower Alley wins the Woodward that wont count for anything because NY is his homestate and he only beat Sun King, who if you think is a world beater, well then I have a professional baseball team in Alaska waiting for you to buy.

Yeah, where were you the last few days, we've already hashed out the Eastern bias bull**** that exists. If this was an East Coast horse everybody would be sporting woodies over him, instead it's just ho-hum that a horse for the first time in 20 years has won a Grade 1 on turf and dirt, actually gets in the starting gate more than 3 times a year and is UNDEFEATED!!!!! this year, all in stakes!With 4 GRADE 1's!!!!

Rupert Pupkin · #3 08-22-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

His race Sunday was brilliant. He dueled through very honest fractions and opened up on the field and had plenty left to hold off Good Reward.

Thats his 4th grade 1 win of the year. 6 in total, 2 on turf. Unbelievably consistent animal who still gets knocked on here for beating Perfect Drift, Magnum, Super Frolic, and a few others who I guess are a cut below horses like Flower Alley, who gets big time notoriety for beatng Bellamy Road off a huge layoff and the ridiculously overrated Roman Ruler.

So I guess he wont be validated until he wins outside of CA, meaning the BC Classic. Okay, so if Flower Alley wins the Woodward that wont count for anything because NY is his homestate and he only beat Sun King, who if you think is a world beater, well then I have a professional baseball team in Alaska waiting for you to buy.

I agree with you 100%. The field on Sunday may not have been great, but LM went head and head in pretty fast fractions and drew away and won by 4 lengths. It was an impressive performance. As I said in another thread, there is no way that Sun King could have gone head and head in :46 3/5 in a 1 1/4 mile race and beaten that field by 4 lengths.

Not only that, but LM has run a lot of great races. If this was the only good race that he ever ran then I could see why people would be skeptical. But this horse has done it time and time again. His win in the Hollywood Gold Cup last year was unbelievable. He won the race by 8 lengths over Borrego. He ran a 120 Beyer that day. I'm sure the sheet numbers confirm that it was an incredible performance.

pba1817 · #4 08-22-2006, 06:33 PM

I wouldnt say he had plenty left, but he did win the race which was the goal.

The entire field looked totally gassed coming for home, I wouldnt say the race was spectacular or even impressive... I will bet against Lava Man when/if he leaves so cal...

Gander · #5 08-22-2006, 07:43 PM

Lava Man runs a clunker in last year's Jockey Club and he gets scorned for it. So too does Flower Alley, but because he is trained by Todd Pletcher and resides in NY, he is excused for running bad and follows it up with a very non-threatening but good 2nd place finish to the late great Saint Liam.

Lava Man runs another bad one in Japan, in a country where US horses often do poorly in, then gets some time off and comes back to reel off 6 wins in a row in 2006, when overhyped horses like FLower Alley beat a mediocre at best field of 5 in a NJ prep race then gets schooled on his home track in a race he'd been pointing for since Dec 2005.

Yet people still diss this great horse and would rather talk about Flower Alley getting another crack at the far from great Sun King on Labor Day weekend.

Gander · #6 08-22-2006, 07:44 PM

I wouldnt say he had plenty left, but he did win the race which was the goal.

Did you watch the same race I did? What do you want him to win by, 10?

2MinsToPost · #7 08-22-2006, 08:01 PM

Look at the $100 bet I have with your pal

DiscreetCat=Monster · #8 08-22-2006, 11:38 PM

Slowest running of the Pacific Classic to Date

Good Reward ran 2nd not a top not Gr 1 dirt winner

I am glad he won so that way at the BC he takes alot of Money at the windows so I guess that will work out

Rupert Pupkin · #9 08-23-2006, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOSE=GLUE

Slowest running of the Pacific Classic to Date

Good Reward ran 2nd not a top not Gr 1 dirt winner

I am glad he won so that way at the BC he takes alot of Money at the windows so I guess that will work out

Who would you take over him in the BC Classic? The only one I could see beating him is Bernardini. I think LM could easily handle Invasor or Sun King.

pba1817 · #10 08-23-2006, 01:32 AM

Gander-

I did not expect him to win by more than what he did. He was an even money shot in a race that was his to lose. He is by far the best horse on the west coast. I just plan to bet against him when/if he ships is all, he appears to not ship well at all to me.

Gander · #11 08-23-2006, 07:49 AM

Who would you take over him in the BC Classic? The only one I could see beating him is Bernardini. I think LM could easily handle Invasor or Sun King.

I agree Rupert. People knock the quality of horses Lava man beats, yet yap about horses like Invasor,Flower Alley, Sun King and even Surf Cat (who never runs).

Who exactly did Invasor beat in the Suburban? Wild Desert, Wilko, Andromedas Hero, Noble Causeway? Woo hoo. Are those horses any better than Good Reward, Perfect Drift, Magnum, and Super Frolic? I dont think so. And when all of a sudden did Sun King jump to the top of the handicap ranks? To date I am losing count of his Grade 1 wins. Wait, he doesnt have any. Flower Alley has done nothing to live up to his hype even though hes been carefullly trained all year to dominate the 2nd half season races (Ya thats been working out real well) and Surf Cat is the greatest horse in training because he never runs. Hes still living off beating Grinding it Out in a 4 horse field in April.

All the while we are 8 months into 2006 and Lava Man has 6 wins. 4 grade 1's including 1 on the turf. I dont get some of you guys.

Dunbar · #12 08-23-2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Who would you take over him in the BC Classic? The only one I could see beating him is Bernardini. I think LM could easily handle Invasor or Sun King.

I agree Rupert. People knock the quality of horses Lava man beats, yet yap about horses like Invasor,Flower Alley, Sun King and even Surf Cat (who never runs).

Who exactly did Invasor beat in the Suburban? Wild Desert, Wilko, Andromedas Hero, Noble Causeway? Woo hoo. Are those horses any better than Good Reward, Perfect Drift, Magnum, and Super Frolic? I dont think so. And when all of a sudden did Sun King jump to the top of the handicap ranks? To date I am losing count of his Grade 1 wins. Wait, he doesnt have any. Flower Alley has done nothing to live up to his hype even though hes been carefullly trained all year to dominate the 2nd half season races (Ya thats been working out real well) and Surf Cat is the greatest horse in training because he never runs. Hes still living off beating Grinding it Out in a 4 horse field in April.

All the while we are 8 months into 2006 and Lava Man has 6 wins. 4 grade 1's including 1 on the turf. I dont get some of you guys.

I'm a big believer in Lava Man, Gander, but I see no reason to think that he will "easily handle Invasor". They are the cream of the crop for older horses this year. I don't think it's necessary to tout one at the expense of the other.

With some luck (a good bit of luck, actually), Lava Man and Invasor will meet in the BCC, and we'll get a good read on which one is better. Until then it's a lot of "I think the [insert year] Lakers could have mopped the floor with the [insert other year] Celtics.", or vice versa. ie, pretty much empty fan talk.

--Dunbar

pba1817 · #13 08-23-2006, 07:25 PM

Actually, I am not sure who will be sitting on a peak performance in october, have to wait and see how the race shapes up, but I will be betting that its not Lava Man.

Gander · #14 08-23-2006, 07:29 PM

Lava Man wont be peaking in October. Probably not. Hes already won 6 straight races this year, 4 of them grade 1's while the rest of the top East Coast horses (with the lone exception of Invasor) having nothing but excuses.

If the due factor is working, then you are correct. Its about time an east coast horse actually does something. Invasor has been getting it done but just like you guys who arent impressed with who Lava Man has been beating, I am not impressed with who Invasor has been beating. Sorry, Andromedas Hero and Wild Desert arent great horses.

pba1817 · #15 08-23-2006, 08:21 PM

I guess I should have made it more clear, what I am saying is that none of the older horses have impressed me so far this summer. A couple 3yo's look as good as the older horses do... I am guessing David Junior will be the smart guy horse come October and he will get some of my money.

Dunbar · #16 08-24-2006, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pba1817

I guess I should have made it more clear, what I am saying is that none of the older horses have impressed me so far this summer. A couple 3yo's look as good as the older horses do... I am guessing David Junior will be the smart guy horse come October and he will get some of my money.

I would be liking David Junior a lot more if he were not training up to the BCC. I hope he gets a lot of wise guy action.

--Dunbar

Rupert Pupkin · #17 08-24-2006, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pba1817

I guess I should have made it more clear, what I am saying is that none of the older horses have impressed me so far this summer. A couple 3yo's look as good as the older horses do... I am guessing David Junior will be the smart guy horse come October and he will get some of my money.

David Junior is a great horse but it's very tough to know whether he will take to the dirt or not. His dam side is 100% turf breeding.

I agree with you that the 3 year olds look better than the older horses for the most part. Bernardini has been more impressive than anyone IMO.

Slewstoo · #18 08-24-2006, 07:53 AM

I thought Lava Man ran a hell of a race on Sunday and has proven himself to be at the top of the handicap division. I don't care if he's only run in California this year or not, look at his resume it speaks for itself. Granted, I want to see him take on the best horses that the east has to offer but I still think the HOY title is his to lose.

Also, I'm a huge Sun King fan, but when did he all of the sudden become one of the top handicap horses in the division? I think he's been improving at a steady click ever since his Keeneland effort, but he has alot to do before he's amongst the top 3 or so older horses. Having said that, he's my pick in the Woodward.

Gander · #19 08-24-2006, 08:02 AM

Thats basically what I said. Everybody is really quick to denote the east coast contingent as the horses to beat. Doesnt matter what year it is, its always just assumed that the best horses are always in the east and I couldnt disagree more this year. Its not like there are 3-4 monsters in the east that the connections of Lava Man have been shrewdly avoiding. I dont think Doug O" Neill is going too far out of his way to shy away from Sun King and Flower Alley! Invasor is a pretty nice racehorse but you have to admit it didnt hurt to have Sun King as the one to hold off at the wire and not a horse who likes to go by. Hes about one more of those races away from becoming Perfect Drift.

Slewstoo · #20 08-24-2006, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gander

Thats basically what I said. Everybody is really quick to denote the east coast contingent as the horses to beat. Doesnt matter what year it is, its always just assumed that the best horses are always in the east and I couldnt disagree more this year. Its not like there are 3-4 monsters in the east that the connections of Lava Man have been shrewdly avoiding. I dont think Doug O" Neill is going too far out of his way to shy away from Sun King and Flower Alley! Invasor is a pretty nice racehorse but you have to admit it didnt hurt to have Sun King as the one to hold off at the wire and not a horse who likes to go by. Hes about one more of those races away from becoming Perfect Drift.

And like Perfect Drift he just continues to pick up those paychecks for Farmer, but it's a good comparison. He'll eventually get that elusive G1 than most likely be retired with some mysterious injury, even though he's one of the few that have been completely sound throughout his career.