Travers Field

hockey2315 · #1 08-23-2006, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Cheap speed is a non-factor. Kip is a nothing horse and will have no effect on this race. There is no way his presence should affect any other horse. They can let him go out there and get 15 in front if he wants to because he's shown that he can't finish even when running shorter distances so he'll come back to them here too.

Kip Deville totally changes the complexion of the race. . .

King Glorious · #2 08-23-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Kip Deville totally changes the complexion of the race. . .

He has no effect on the race. None at all.

hockey2315 · #3 08-23-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

He has no effect on the race. None at all.

So are you saying that pace has nothing to do with the outcome of a race?

2MinsToPost · #4 08-23-2006, 02:37 PM

no offense guys and gals but this is the premire race at Toga right and it's a 7horse field?

hockey2315 · #5 08-23-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

no offense guys and gals but this is the premire race at Toga right and it's a 7horse field?

I think that's mostly due to all the injuries this years three year olds have suffered-

Barbaro, Jazil, Steppenwolfer, Sweetnorthernsaint (maybe?), Brother Derek, and Lawyer Ron were all considered contenders in the TC races and aren't currently racing.

Plus Bernardini and BGC have probably scared off most other challengers.

King Glorious · #6 08-23-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

So are you saying that pace has nothing to do with the outcome of a race?

Contested pace does. Not a cheap horse with no chance that is just going to go out there winging. If u were on one of the contenders, would u feel the need to go out there with him or just run your race and do what u normally do? No matter what the pace, the race is going to run between 2:01 and 2:03 more than likely. So why push your horse to run a 45 half just to keep up with a horse that's got no shot? If Kip was a horse that could be a threat to steal it, that would be different. But he's not so any trainer or jockey with any sense will know not to change their strategy because of him.

hockey2315 · #7 08-23-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Contested pace does. Not a cheap horse with no chance that is just going to go out there winging. If u were on one of the contenders, would u feel the need to go out there with him or just run your race and do what u normally do? No matter what the pace, the race is going to run between 2:01 and 2:03 more than likely. So why push your horse to run a 45 half just to keep up with a horse that's got no shot? If Kip was a horse that could be a threat to steal it, that would be different. But he's not so any trainer or jockey with any sense will know not to change their strategy because of him.

Bernardini's never really had to follow a horse like Kip before to my knowledge or a pace like the one there could be on Saturday. How do you know how he will react?

slotdirt · #8 08-23-2006, 02:48 PM

I'm so tired of field size complaints. There are a ton of races this time of year for 3YO's, there always are. How many horses ran in last year's Travers? I'd bet dollars to doughnuts it wasn't many more than seven.

slotdirt · #9 08-23-2006, 02:49 PM

Last year's Travers field. Man, only seven horses, this race must have blown:

PP. HORSE TRAINER JOCKEY WGT.
1. Bellamy Road Nick Zito Javier Castellano 126
2. Andromeda's Hero Nick Zito Corey Nakatani 126
3. Chekhov Patrick Biancone Gary Stevens 126
4. Roman Ruler Bob Baffert Jerry Bailey 126
5. Don't Get Mad Ron Ellis Edgar Prado 126
6. Reverberate Sal Russo Jose Santos 126
7. Flower Alley Todd Pletcher John Velazquez 126

#10 08-23-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt

I'm so tired of field size complaints. There are a ton of races this time of year for 3YO's, there always are. How many horses ran in last year's Travers? I'd bet dollars to doughnuts it wasn't many more than seven.

I dont complain about field size, I complain about quality. Now the 2006 Travers has quality in it and I am very happy with the field.

King Glorious · #11 08-23-2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Bernardini's never really had to follow a horse like Kip before to my knowledge or a pace like the one there could be on Saturday. How do you know how he will react?

Again though, u are assuming that Bernardini will have to change the way he normally runs because of the presence of Kip. If the plan for Bernardini Saturday is to run 47 and 1:11, why would he have to change that just because Kip is out there going 45 and 1:09? What I'm saying is that the pace of the race hasn't changed for the contenders. They can still run the race they were planning on running. The only difference now is that the earlier fractions will be faster but as long as the others just run their normal race, the final fractions will fall right in line with where the race would have gone had Kip not been in there. It was going to go in the 2:01-2:03 range with or without Kip so u run accordingly. It's not like a horse like Lion Heart was. He was a horse that u knew if u let him get away with soft fractions and an easy lead, he could steal it. In that case, u had to change your strategy to prevent that from happening. Not so with Kip. He's no threat to steal anything.

slotdirt · #12 08-23-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Again though, u are assuming that Bernardini will have to change the way he normally runs because of the presence of Kip. If the plan for Bernardini Saturday is to run 47 and 1:11, why would he have to change that just because Kip is out there going 45 and 1:09? What I'm saying is that the pace of the race hasn't changed for the contenders. They can still run the race they were planning on running. The only difference now is that the earlier fractions will be faster but as long as the others just run their normal race, the final fractions will fall right in line with where the race would have gone had Kip not been in there. It was going to go in the 2:01-2:03 range with or without Kip so u run accordingly. It's not like a horse like Lion Heart was. He was a horse that u knew if u let him get away with soft fractions and an easy lead, he could steal it. In that case, u had to change your strategy to prevent that from happening. Not so with Kip. He's no threat to steal anything.

If you think this, you don't understand horses. Just my two cents.

Gander · #13 08-23-2006, 03:05 PM

Couldnt agree more King and I question why he is in here. Does the trainer or owner have some sort of deal going with Pletcher? I dont get it at all but wouldnt put anything past these guys.