PETA - Big Brown

[ateamstupid]

Seriously, I know PETA = bad!!! BAD PETA!!! but haven't many of you been saying basically the same thing this year? How it's a shame that a horse with such bad feet is going to be passing his genes on to hundreds of new thoroughbreds?

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Seriously, I know PETA = bad!!! BAD PETA!!! but haven't many of you been saying basically the same thing this year? How it's a shame that a horse with such bad feet is going to be passing his genes on to hundreds of new thoroughbreds?

.......yeah, but this stuff has been going on so long not much you can do........kinda like the illegal alien situation in cali

[DogsUp]

PETA is now on Victorino's case for liking Spam:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big...urn=mlb,115113

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Seriously, I know PETA = bad!!! BAD PETA!!! but haven't many of you been saying basically the same thing this year? How it's a shame that a horse with such bad feet is going to be passing his genes on to hundreds of new thoroughbreds?

yeah like Danzig and Mr P

[Scav]

The only thing that PETA can bitch about in horse racing is when Cannon finally lets me get on a thoroughbred.....

[philcski]

To put it in perspective, you can get to Spectaculardynasty who has had about 15 starters, of which nearly all have won at some level, four of which have started more than 40 times, for the low low price of

FREE.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by philcski

To put it in perspective, you can get to Spectaculardynasty who has had about 15 starters, of which nearly all have won at some level, four of which have started more than 40 times, for the low low price of

FREE.

I have noticed that this sire is not too bad, but very, very under utilized . A shame because he is probably the only Spectacular Bid standing . 20 years old now .
Note : I just checked and tbred times has 8 sons listed at stud .
http://www.bluehousefarm.com/

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Scav

The only thing that PETA can bitch about in horse racing is when Cannon finally lets me get on a thoroughbred.....

I will turn myself in to the proper authorities

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

yeah like Danzig and Mr P

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with them, I just find it funny that people who have been saying the same basic thing about Big Brown are reacting so negatively to this.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with them, I just find it funny that people who have been saying the same basic thing about Big Brown are reacting so negatively to this.

Those people while probably not radicals dont know what they are talking about either. There is no soundness gene and genetics plays a very small role in the soundness of horses generally speaking.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Those people while probably not radicals dont know what they are talking about either. There is no soundness gene and genetics plays a very small role in the soundness of horses generally speaking.

Is there a fast gene? Is there an endurance gene?

I wonder why horses that win races are more highly bred than those that never break their maiden? If genetics plays no role in soundness, or a minor role, then it seems logical it should play a minor role in speed and endurance.
Yes?

Of course it is not an exact science. But honestly to say there is a minor genetic component...?
WE have completely changed horses in a very short time evolutionarily speaking. Especially for a mammal that takes longer than us in the gestation period.
Just like we have done with so many domesticated in animals and plants.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Is there a fast gene? Is there an endurance gene?

I wonder why horses that win races are more highly bred than those that never break their maiden? If genetics plays no role in soundness, or a minor role, then it seems logical it should play a minor role in speed and endurance.
Yes?

No because soundness is not the same thing as talent. If a horse steps on a nail he will be unsound for a period of time. If he is slow he will always be slow. There are certainly fast twitch and slow twitch muscles. Alot of what is passed on is size and shape. For the most part a heavily muscled, short cropped horse wont have the same amount of stamina as a tall, rangy horse. They can inheirit the size and or shape from either side of the pedigree.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

No because soundness is not the same thing as talent. If a horse steps on a nail he will be unsound for a period of time. If he is slow he will always be slow. There are certainly fast twitch and slow twitch muscles. Alot of what is passed on is size and shape. For the most part a heavily muscled, short cropped horse wont have the same amount of stamina as a tall, rangy horse. They can inheirit the size and or shape from either side of the pedigree.

So soundness has nothing to do with conformation?
And conformation is not genetic?

A horse that steps on a nail will also be slow.
I think what you are saying is that feet, because they take so much abuse, can have very random things happen to them. Things that are clearly not genetic, I agree. But to imply that all horses are born with the same hoof/foot durability is imho, not true. To say that genetics has very little to do with hoof/foot durability because randomness (nails, stones, etc...) plays a much larger role is a very different arguement.

-Humbly yours.
Dr. Phil Garden

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

yeah like Danzig and Mr P

hey, i didn't....
oh, the horse. j/k, i knew who you meant.

and danzig sired the most stakes winners on the continent, and with small books. it's a crapshoot for sure.

personally, i wouldn't breed to big brown because boundary didn't do a whole lot in his brief career at stud, and big brown wasn't a top 3 yo.. he's just the top this year...too many horses out there with better pedigrees and more talent.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

hey, i didn't....
oh, the horse. j/k, i knew who you meant.

and danzig sired the most stakes winners on the continent, and with small books. it's a crapshoot for sure.

personally, i wouldn't breed to big brown because boundary didn't do a whole lot in his brief career at stud, and big brown wasn't a top 3 yo.. he's just the top this year...too many horses out there with better pedigrees and more talent.

Honestly it is about price also. If you could get to him for $20k you may take a chance he is going to do ok. But for $75k he is a huge risk for the reasons you said not to mention there are plenty of really good proven sires at that level. One of the mistakes that they made was letting the media make a big deal out of the feet issues. They simply talked too much. If you are staying in as a major stakeholder in a stallion the last thing you want is the media telling of the woes of your horses health over and over. There are quite a few major stallions that have gone to stud with far bigger issues than this horse has that you never heard about in the media.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Honestly it is about price also. If you could get to him for $20k you may take a chance he is going to do ok. But for $75k he is a huge risk for the reasons you said not to mention there are plenty of really good proven sires at that level. One of the mistakes that they made was letting the media make a big deal out of the feet issues. They simply talked too much. If you are staying in as a major stakeholder in a stallion the last thing you want is the media telling of the woes of your horses health over and over. There are quite a few major stallions that have gone to stud with far bigger issues than this horse has that you never heard about in the media.

75?! good god...is that what they really are trying to get??
and yeah, right now with farms reassessing fees, and people going cheaper with a lot of their mares, you don't want anyone looking at big brown and thinking worse of him then they would just based on him being a boundary. yeah, he won the derby...but so did giacomo, and he didn't get 75 grand--and i like holy bull better than boundary.
sunday silences conformation was pretty bad-it sure didn't hurt him in the end. but i'd think a poorly built horse would cause more hesitation than feet issues. how well is big brown put together anyway?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

75?! good god...is that what they really are trying to get??
and yeah, right now with farms reassessing fees, and people going cheaper with a lot of their mares, you don't want anyone looking at big brown and thinking worse of him then they would just based on him being a boundary. yeah, he won the derby...but so did giacomo, and he didn't get 75 grand--and i like holy bull better than boundary.
sunday silences conformation was pretty bad-it sure didn't hurt him in the end. but i'd think a poorly built horse would cause more hesitation than feet issues. how well is big brown put together anyway?

Between 60 and 75 and I am guessing the high end to give them a little wiggle room on the deals. I honestly havent seen Sunday Silence in so long I cant remember what his conformation was like.

[AeWingnut]

so... will they start breeding horses to race instead of racing to breed