Obama - good for Americans

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

those three points you made? that's what he'll do? well, whoopie. i don't care how good a speaker is-actions speak louder than any words; he can't lower taxes unless congress sends him a bill to lower taxes, and the war will end whether he gets in there or not.
and the middle class might be happy with a tax break, but when the businesses they work for leave on the same track as those who have gone before, to cheaper labor south of the border for instance, it won't do those folks much good. raising corporate taxes is not a way to grow the economy, to create jobs...it will however temporarily raise the amount of spending that obama has promised. the 'evil' businesses we all either work for or operate pay a lot already-much of their employees health care, they equal the amount taken out in social security benefits, pay workers comp and unemployment insurance, etc. and now a tax increase on the people who pay all our wages. you really think the owners, stockholders, top execs are going to take a hit to pay for that loss? hell no. that will trickle down to the workers as well. two things happen when a business sees less on the bottom line. what can we cut, what prices can we raise? it's never, gee, i guess i'll take a hit on my income so my workers still get their due.

You are such a Republican(just accept it.) This masquerading is embarassing to watch. "I love guns, hunting, and big business. However, I am not a Republican. I'm Independent." Why are you so against just accepting you are a Republican? It's amazing the lengths people will go to try to make themselves stick out from the crowd. Everything I have ever seen you write about economics has been in support of having just 2 classes of people.

hey scuds do you live with your parents?

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

hey scuds do you live with your parents?

No, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them comes to live with me someday. I want to talk to my dad, and he usually can't hear me. I don't want to talk to my mom, and she hears everything.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

No, but I wouldn't be surprised if one of them comes to live with me someday. I want to talk to my dad, and he usually can't hear me. I don't want to talk to my mom, and she hears everything.

Too funny.

Maybe he has the hearing aid switched to
off around your mom. Probably decided the
world of silence was a pleasant one.

My mom (RIP) caused me to go deaf
on purpose in Elementary School.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You are such a Republican(just accept it.) This masquerading is embarassing to watch. "I love guns, hunting, and big business. However, I am not a Republican. I'm Independent." Why are you so against just accepting you are a Republican? It's amazing the lengths people will go to try to make themselves stick out from the crowd. Everything I have ever seen you write about economics has been in support of having just 2 classes of people.

yawn

i'm sure i'd be accepted by them. as soon as i said i was pro-choice and pro-gay marriage, i'd imagine i'd be shown the door.


edit~instead of attacking me, why don't you just explain what i've got wrong about what i wrote, and what the truth is about small businesses, corporations, and the taxes they pay?
naaah, won't happen. so much easier to attack the messenger.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

yawn

i'm sure i'd be accepted by them. as soon as i said i was pro-choice and pro-gay marriage, i'd imagine i'd be shown the door.


edit~instead of attacking me, why don't you just explain what i've got wrong about what i wrote, and what the truth is about small businesses, corporations, and the taxes they pay?
naaah, won't happen. so much easier to attack the messenger.

I'm not attacking what you said. I'm just saying it's Republican. I can't change your views. I'm just saying you're a Republican. I think your views are in line with Log Cabin Republicans.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

I'm not attacking what you said. I'm just saying it's Republican. I can't change your views. I'm just saying you're a Republican. I think your views are in line with Log Cabin Republicans.

i don't know much about 'blue dog' dems, but i know they're supposed to be fiscally conservative. does that mean they're closet republicans?

i just want to know how, if you make it harder for businesses to meet what they've set as their bottom line, it's a good thing? i work for a business, i help do the budgets. i know what the margins are, and i know what the profits are. i also know that the owner has his idea of what he should make. if the cost of doing business rises, i also know it's not him who will be cut back. now, it's all well and good to say that corporations make a lot of money, and need to pay their fair share. but i think it's ignoring reality to think that the ceo, the cfo, or the vp's, stockholders or owners are the ones who are going to take the hit when the bottom line looks like it will be lowered. prices will go up for their goods and services, or the amount of employees will be lowered. but stockholders will get their share, and the fat cats will still get fed. so, how does any of that help the middle class?

my concern when i ask these questions is not showing concern for the rich. i'm concerned for myself, and my co-workers and others just like them.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't know much about 'blue dog' dems, but i know they're supposed to be fiscally conservative. does that mean they're closet republicans?

i just want to know how, if you make it harder for businesses to meet what they've set as their bottom line, it's a good thing? i work for a business, i help do the budgets. i know what the margins are, and i know what the profits are. i also know that the owner has his idea of what he should make. if the cost of doing business rises, i also know it's not him who will be cut back. now, it's all well and good to say that corporations make a lot of money, and need to pay their fair share. but i think it's ignoring reality to think that the ceo, the cfo, or the vp's, stockholders or owners are the ones who are going to take the hit when the bottom line looks like it will be lowered. prices will go up for their goods and services, or the amount of employees will be lowered. but stockholders will get their share, and the fat cats will still get fed. so, how does any of that help the middle class?

my concern when i ask these questions is not showing concern for the rich. i'm concerned for myself, and my co-workers and others just like them.

Blue Dog Democrats don't believe what you wrote about economics. That's about all they disagree with Republicans on. They favor a 3 class society, and Republicans favor just a 2 class society.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Blue Dog Democrats don't believe what you wrote about economics. That's about all they disagree with Republicans on. They favor a 3 class society, and Republicans favor just a 2 class society.

why would anyone favor a three class society? that would mean we still had poor people.
about all i've read about blue dogs is that they favor 'paygo'. i'll have to do some further research on them.

[Danzig]

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-...ate-taxes.html

interesting stuff...

It's bipartisan. Among people who have called either for a reduction in or elimination of corporate taxes are John McCain, Charlie Rangel, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman, Lester Thurow.


Some 70 percent of the corporate tax burden is borne by workers in the form of lower wages and fewer high-paying jobs

An EU study of 50,000 companies found that a 1 percent increase in marginal corporate income tax rates leads to a 0.92 percent decrease in real wages.



It's a hidden tax: Even workers get hit by it, but they don't know it because they don't directly pay the tax.

For every dollar the government collects in revenue, the corporate tax may actually cost the government $1 in revenue through slower economic growth

[TheSpyder]

I like reefer, Bob Marley, and the outdoors, but I have voted Republican in the past. Am I not an Independant or just too stoned to realize what I am doing?


I figure since you are the party Chuch Lady you can tell me.

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

You are such a Republican(just accept it.) This masquerading is embarassing to watch. "I love guns, hunting, and big business. However, I am not a Republican. I'm Independent." Why are you so against just accepting you are a Republican? It's amazing the lengths people will go to try to make themselves stick out from the crowd. Everything I have ever seen you write about economics has been in support of having just 2 classes of people.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by TheSpyder

I like reefer, Bob Marley, and the outdoors, but I have voted Republican in the past. Am I not an Independant or just too stoned to realize what I am doing?


I figure since you are the party Chuch Lady you can tell me.

Read what she wrote about economics above. If you believe that, then you're a Republican. If you believe what she wrote, and you also think everyone should get their own damn fire department, then you're a Libertarian. I think it's economic views that really describe where people fall politically. The Social Values stuff (ABORTION etc, ) is secondary. I don't think many Democrats would believe what she wrote about economics, but many would be against abortion n' gay anything(a lot of Catholics are in this zone...actually the Catholic Church Teachings are that of a Democrat who is against abortion n' gay anything.)

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

Read what she wrote about economics above. If you believe that, then you're a Republican. If you believe what she wrote, and you also think everyone should get their own damn fire department, then you're a Libertarian. I think it's economic views that really describe where people fall politically. The Social Values stuff (ABORTION etc, ) is secondary. I don't think many Democrats would believe what she wrote about economics, but many would be against abortion n' gay anything(a lot of Catholics are in this zone...actually the Catholic Church Teachings are that of a Democrat who is against abortion n' gay anything.)

well, instead of slapping a 'republican' label on what i wrote, tell me what's wrong about it? how does increasing the cost of business, which ultimately affects workers-both in lost jobs and price increases-mean it's a republican viewpoint? how does raising govt income help an employee? i'm asking in the hopes that you'll give an opposite view to what a wrote, rather than just dismiss it as a republican view. i'm using my POV, due to where i work, and where my husband works, as the basis for what i wrote. i know that over the years, my husbands company has laid off hundreds of folks-moreso when it was a publically held company, to help it's share price. now it's private, but there were still layoffs when the company was purchased. since companies have to maintain their bottom line, have to be profitable, how would my contention that increasing their cost of business would be harmful to the middle class employee mean i support the rich? what am i missing? or do you believe that the rich guys who own and manage the company are somehow going to take a pay cut to make up the difference?

edit~also, while i'm awaiting an answer, and not just an 'oh, you're a republican blah blah' retort...you also mentioned above that since i'm a gun owner, i must be a republican...could you also take the time to explain why exactly my exercise of that constitutional right is somehow incorrect, or to be treated with disdain? should we as americans only follow parts of the constitution, but not all of it? since some are exercising the right to free speech to encourage hate, should we all lose that right as well?
thanks in advance for what i'm sure will be a well-thought out response on that issue.

[Danzig]

well, now this is interesting....while i had the time, i did a search on corporate taxes. now, since i say that no corporate taxes should be raised i was told i'm a republican. that keeping corporate taxes low is a republican idea....and i found this:

"On the campaign trail, McCain portrays Obama as an eager supporter of higher taxes who is unwilling to buck his own party, while Obama often charges that McCain's policies would help the wealthy and strand blue-collar workers.

"Both of them would raise corporate taxes but not the rate," said Roberton Williams, a principal research associate at the Washington-based nonpartisan Tax Policy Institute.

"Both of them would raise taxes by closing some loopholes that allow corporations to reduce their taxable income," he told the Reuters Wealth Management Summit."


so, tell me again...mccain is a rep, but is also advocating raising corporate taxes. i also strongly disagree with his idea of taxing our insurance benefits. so, i'm a republican....but i disagree with the republican candidate. it's all becoming clearer.

[Danzig]

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publica...how/22917.html

i have no idea what type of site the above is, but also found it worth looking over.
and i had no idea charles rangel was a republican.

[Danzig]

and this was apparently run in the new york times:

http://bigpicture.typepad.com/commen...ate-vs-pe.html

a part of the above:

-Economists teach that corporations are often able to pass on much of their tax burden to employees and/or customers.

-Relatively high corporate tax rates incentivize corporations to find ways to run their profits through lower-tax jurisdictions

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

well, now this is interesting....while i had the time, i did a search on corporate taxes. now, since i say that no corporate taxes should be raised i was told i'm a republican. that keeping corporate taxes low is a republican idea....and i found this:

"On the campaign trail, McCain portrays Obama as an eager supporter of higher taxes who is unwilling to buck his own party, while Obama often charges that McCain's policies would help the wealthy and strand blue-collar workers.

"Both of them would raise corporate taxes but not the rate," said Roberton Williams, a principal research associate at the Washington-based nonpartisan Tax Policy Institute.

"Both of them would raise taxes by closing some loopholes that allow corporations to reduce their taxable income," he told the Reuters Wealth Management Summit."


so, tell me again...mccain is a rep, but is also advocating raising corporate taxes. i also strongly disagree with his idea of taxing our insurance benefits. so, i'm a republican....but i disagree with the republican candidate. it's all becoming clearer.

No, McCain is not a typical Republican. He has the pliability of Taffy. He believes in getting elected,and low income taxes. Everything else is up for grabs with this individual. He is a populist. The reason he is losing is because he changes his message constantly, and Independents aren't in the mood to put someone like that in charge in a serious economic time like this.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

well, instead of slapping a 'republican' label on what i wrote, tell me what's wrong about it? how does increasing the cost of business, which ultimately affects workers-both in lost jobs and price increases-mean it's a republican viewpoint? how does raising govt income help an employee? i'm asking in the hopes that you'll give an opposite view to what a wrote, rather than just dismiss it as a republican view.

O.K., you say you aren't against the middle class, but you (and like Republicans) have a recipe that can only result in 2 classes.

1) Employers can pay employees the least amount that it will take to get people to survive, and come back to the job. It's 100% up to the employer. They don't want them to have to pay any medical benefits etc. Republicans claim that the market will result in the higher skilled employees being paid the most, and they are the ones that should get offered medical(if the company so chooses to do it.)

2) Republicans want low taxes on everyone, and everything. This results in low amounts of money raised to run a Gov't. They often favor a flat tax(same income tax rate for everybody...regardless of income level.)

3) Republicans want to keep Gov't expenditures low, and that goes right along with their low tax rate desires.


Now, it sounds o.k., but it never works. Whoever owns the company is gunna usually pay their employees the least of the profits that they possibly can. Then, they want to pay very little tax on their profits. Then, that results in virtually no money for the Gov't to correct the problems created when the employer refused to pay their employees much. The Republican response to this is what? All at once now......."GET A BETTER JOB."So,people upgraded their skill levels to get better pay and benefits. Should work beautifully, Right? It doesn't. You have a whole country(INDIA) full of people who tried this. Once the employers realized their were a lot of highly skilled people, they did what humans do, and they started paying less and less(because high computer related skills were easy to get.) Capitalism is about who has power. It rewards those who have the power(and their friends,) and punishes all others. What Republicans don't realize is we've tried it the way they want it, and it worked very badly. All these things they hate(taxes, Social programs, Medicare, Social Security etc. ) came about because their way didn't work. It creates 2 classes only. Sure, if you lower taxes on business, then there will be a lot of jobs. Almost all will be poor paying jobs. These businesses you say will move? Where they gunna move? Some place with low taxes and low paying jobs? O.K., so you want them to stay here(with low taxes.) What you gunna complain about next? I know. The companies want to move because people will work for less elsewhere. We are bankrupting these companies by paying people too much. Lets lower salaries to keep jobs here. It's endless, and that's why you live surrounded by low paid Republican hillbillies. If low taxes on business resulted in higher salaries, then the South would have the highest paid workers(they don't.) They have a lot of dumb Republican Hillbillies making Corporations rich.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER

O.K., you say you aren't against the middle class, but you (and like Republicans) have a recipe that can only result in 2 classes.

1) Employers can pay employees the least amount that it will take to get people to survive, and come back to the job. It's 100% up to the employer. They don't want them to have to pay any medical benefits etc. Republicans claim that the market will result in the higher skilled employees being paid the most, and they are the ones that should get offered medical(if the company so chooses to do it.)

2) Republicans want low taxes on everyone, and everything. This results in low amounts of money raised to run a Gov't. They often favor a flat tax(same income tax rate for everybody...regardless of income level.)

3) Republicans want to keep Gov't expenditures low, and that goes right along with their low tax rate desires.


Now, it sounds o.k., but it never works. Whoever owns the company is gunna usually pay their employees the least of the profits that they possibly can. Then, they want to pay very little tax on their profits. Then, that results in virtually no money for the Gov't to correct the problems created when the employer refused to pay their employees much. The Republican response to this is what? All at once now......."GET A BETTER JOB."So,people upgraded their skill levels to get better pay and benefits. Should work beautifully, Right? It doesn't. You have a whole country(INDIA) full of people who tried this. Once the employers realized their were a lot of highly skilled people, they did what humans do, and they started paying less and less(because high computer related skills were easy to get.) Capitalism is about who has power. It rewards those who have the power(and their friends,) and punishes all others. What Republicans don't realize is we've tried it the way they want it, and it worked very badly. All these things they hate(taxes, Social programs, Medicare, Social Security etc. ) came about because their way didn't work. It creates 2 classes only. Sure, if you lower taxes on business, then there will be a lot of jobs. Almost all will be poor paying jobs. These businesses you say will move? Where they gunna move? Some place with low taxes and low paying jobs? O.K., so you want them to stay here(with low taxes.) What you gunna complain about next? I know. The companies want to move because people will work for less elsewhere. We are bankrupting these companies by paying people too much. Lets lower salaries to keep jobs here. It's endless, and that's why you live surrounded by low paid Republican hillbillies. If low taxes on business resulted in higher salaries, then the South would have the highest paid workers(they don't.) They have a lot of dumb Republican Hillbillies making Corporations rich.

in other words, you didn't read any of the links i put up. and i'm STILL waiting for you to tell me what will work, not what won't.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Originally Posted by Danzig

in other words, you didn't read any of the links i put up. and i'm STILL waiting for you to tell me what will work, not what won't.

What will work? For who? Scandinavia and Canada have some of the best Standards of Living. If you lower tax rates on business are you also gunna make sure your salary increases when the company does well? I don't think so. You're living in probably the most business friendly area of the country, but the workers are paid the least there. Sounds like you enjoy static salaries for workers. So that's "working" for you. I heard Canada is one of the most business friendly countries, and has a top 3 type standard of living. I don't think you could stand for their personal income taxes though. There is no country that works well with the Republican Recipe (low business regulation, low taxes of all types, and low Gov't spending.) That doesn't work, but keep pushing that crap.