Workout injury ends Big Brown Cup hopes, career..

RollerDoc · #1 10-13-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That assumption has nothing to do with your statement and that was that you can compare who had the better season by number of grade ones. By that logic, Vineyard Haven has had a better season than Commentator. And according to your logic, the BC Juvenile Fillies carries no more weight than the BC Classic since both are grade ones. All grade ones aren't created equal. Heatseeker won the grade two Californian, beating Tiago and Surf Cat with a 109 Beyer. Both of those horses are multiple graded stakes winners in open company. Are you seriously going to argue that Big Brown beating Coal Play and Cool Coal Man in the Haskell (106) or beating Macho Again and Ichabad Crane in the Preakness (100) or beating Smooth Air and Tomacito in the Florida Derby (106) mean more simply because they were grade ones? Seriously?

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

MaTH716 · #2 10-13-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

Elysium Fields, but I am pretty sure BB was the favorite.

RollerDoc · #3 10-13-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Elysium Fields, but I am pretty sure BB was the favorite.

That's it! Thanks! I just looked it up and I guess he was a 3-1 second favorite.

King Glorious · #4 10-13-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

I didn't leave them off. Big Brown has beaten a couple of decent horses in Colonel John and Eight Belles. I was only using those other three races as examples of how just because a race is a grade one doesn't mean it has a tough field or is automatically a better race than one with a lower grade.

RollerDoc · #5 10-13-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I didn't leave them off. Big Brown has beaten a couple of decent horses in Colonel John and Eight Belles. I was only using those other three races as examples of how just because a race is a grade one doesn't mean it has a tough field or is automatically a better race than one with a lower grade.

But not every horse qualifies for a Grade 1? Are there better races that aren't Grade 1? Of course. Are there faster horses in non Grade 1 races? Not proportionately.

King Glorious · #6 10-13-2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

But not every horse qualifies for a Grade 1? Are there better races that aren't Grade 1? Of course. Are there faster horses in non Grade 1 races? Not proportionately.

So then you are sticking with he's had the best year because he's won the most grade ones. No matter the actual quality that was in those races.

RollerDoc · #7 10-13-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

So then you are sticking with he's had the best year because he's won the most grade ones. No matter the actual quality that was in those races.

Partially yes. Especially when they are of the prestige of FL Derby, KY Derby, Preakness, and Haskell. Now if those four were all titled the Monmouth Stakes, then no. That is not the only reason why he has had the best year of any horse in 2008 although it does speak volumes. Add to that in three of them, he blew away the field, and in two of them, he won from the outside post (KY Derby was even more amazing post 20).

King Glorious · #8 10-13-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Partially yes. Especially when they are of the prestige of FL Derby, KY Derby, Preakness, and Haskell. Now if those four were all titled the Monmouth Stakes, then no. That is not the only reason why he has had the best year of any horse in 2008 although it does speak volumes. Add to that in three of them, he blew away the field, and in two of them, he won from the outside post (KY Derby was even more amazing post 20).

So then you believe Stardom Bound and Vineyard Haven have both had better years than Commentator? If Stardom Bound wins the BC Juv Fillies and Zenyatta loses the Distaff, they've had an equal year because they've got the same number of grade ones? Or she's had a better one than Proud Spell and her two grade ones? Or Indian Blessing and her two grade ones? Hell, let's take it further. If Stardom Bound wins her third grade one in the BC, she will have had a better single season than Commentator has had a CAREER cause he's only won two grade ones in his career. She would be the equal of Medaglia d' Oro and his three grade one wins in his career. She'd pass Smarty Jones and his two. She'd equal Afleet Alex and his three. One more and she's had as good a career as Ghostzapper.

RollerDoc · #9 10-13-2008, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

So then you believe Stardom Bound and Vineyard Haven have both had better years than Commentator? If Stardom Bound wins the BC Juv Fillies and Zenyatta loses the Distaff, they've had an equal year because they've got the same number of grade ones? Or she's had a better one than Proud Spell and her two grade ones? Or Indian Blessing and her two grade ones? Hell, let's take it further. If Stardom Bound wins her third grade one in the BC, she will have had a better single season than Commentator has had a CAREER cause he's only won two grade ones in his career. She would be the equal of Medaglia d' Oro and his three grade one wins in his career. She'd pass Smarty Jones and his two. She'd equal Afleet Alex and his three. One more and she's had as good a career as Ghostzapper.

I will humbly bow out of this argument since it will only go back and forth. You make excellent points. For my money, Big Brown did have the best year in horse racing in 2008 as detailed earlier. I stand by it.

philcski · #10 10-13-2008, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Partially yes. Especially when they are of the prestige of FL Derby, KY Derby, Preakness, and Haskell. Now if those four were all titled the Monmouth Stakes, then no. That is not the only reason why he has had the best year of any horse in 2008 although it does speak volumes. Add to that in three of them, he blew away the field, and in two of them, he won from the outside post (KY Derby was even more amazing post 20).

Give it up. It's not worth defending him, for one you won't win the argument and two there is no definitive answer.

Just so you know, for my money, Big Brown is HOY unless Curlin wins the BC or if Curlin doesn't, then Zenyatta has a chance to steal it with a dominating Distaff or even moreso with a Classic win.

RollerDoc · #11 10-13-2008, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philcski

Give it up. It's not worth defending him, for one you won't win the argument and two there is no definitive answer.

Just so you know, for my money, Big Brown is HOY unless Curlin wins the BC or if Curlin doesn't, then Zenyatta has a chance to steal it with a dominating Distaff or even moreso with a Classic win.

I figured Big Brown could only have won HOY had he won the BCC. Interesting to know he is still in the running. Even if he cannot run.

ateamstupid · #12 10-13-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

Big Brown was the favorite. Elysium Fields was second choice and got injured during the race I believe.

hockey2315 · #13 10-13-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Big Brown was the favorite. Elysium Fields was second choice and got injured during the race I believe.

Dehydration I think. . .

ateamstupid · #14 10-13-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Dehydration I think. . .

You're probably right, but then what's sidelined him since?

hockey2315 · #15 10-13-2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You're probably right, but then what's sidelined him since?

Not sure - "Severely Overheated, 'Strained Himself'" according to Illman's blog. . .

ELA · #16 10-13-2008, 05:38 PM

I think arguing about Big Brown's Beyer #'s from the FL Derby and KY Derby, and using those #'s to talk about what kind of horse he is, whether or not the race was a good one or not, etc. -- is every entertaining to say the least.

Now that Curlin's work is over, I would suspect that if he doesn't go, it would excusively be because the connections saw Casino Drive's race. LOL.

Eric

Cannon Shell · #17 10-13-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

You're probably right, but then what's sidelined him since?

May have had a dehydrated tendon or dehydrated cannon bone...

RollerDoc · #18 10-13-2008, 06:53 PM

OK so I don't have the guts to start this question as a new thread so I'm hoping someonce can answer but still stays low on the radar in case it is an incredibly stupid one.

Has there ever been a high profile race horse that retired to stud (even briefly), and then came back to legitimately race again?

blackthroatedwind · #19 10-13-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

OK so I don't have the guts to start this question as a new thread so I'm hoping someonce can answer but still stays low on the radar in case it is an incredibly stupid one.

Has there ever been a high profile race horse that retired to stud (even briefly), and then came back to legitimately race again?

The winner of the 3rd BC Classic, Skywalker, did.

King Glorious · #20 10-13-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

OK so I don't have the guts to start this question as a new thread so I'm hoping someonce can answer but still stays low on the radar in case it is an incredibly stupid one.

Has there ever been a high profile race horse that retired to stud (even briefly), and then came back to legitimately race again?

Precisionist did.
George Washington.