Workout injury ends Big Brown Cup hopes, career..

RollerDoc · #1 10-13-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

So let me get this straight. If you say that no one had a better year than Big Brown, it's a fact, but if I say that no one had a better year than Zarkava or Zenyatta or Curlin, it's an opinion? Since when are Grade 1 wins the only factor in determining the greatness of a campaign?

Are Grade 1s not a good common denominator?

ateamstupid · #2 10-13-2008, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Are Grade 1s not a good common denominator?

No, they're not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

synthetic = evil

I'm with you there, but fair is fair. Grabbed quarters have nothing to do with surface.

miraja2 · #3 10-13-2008, 01:20 PM

I think I'll miss Shake the Bank more than I'll miss Big Brown.

King Glorious · #4 10-13-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Are Grade 1s not a good common denominator?

Do you consider the fact that some of the races are restricted? A race restricted to 3yo's is likely not as strong as a race open to all competition. Should 2yo grade ones be given the same weight as the BC Classic?

RollerDoc · #5 10-13-2008, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Do you consider the fact that some of the races are restricted? A race restricted to 3yo's is likely not as strong as a race open to all competition. Should 2yo grade ones be given the same weight as the BC Classic?

I don't know enough about thbis sport but I thought two year olds typically race a lot less than three year olds? Am I wrong on that assumption?

King Glorious · #6 10-13-2008, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

I don't know enough about thbis sport but I thought two year olds typically race a lot less than three year olds? Am I wrong on that assumption?

That assumption has nothing to do with your statement and that was that you can compare who had the better season by number of grade ones. By that logic, Vineyard Haven has had a better season than Commentator. And according to your logic, the BC Juvenile Fillies carries no more weight than the BC Classic since both are grade ones. All grade ones aren't created equal. Heatseeker won the grade two Californian, beating Tiago and Surf Cat with a 109 Beyer. Both of those horses are multiple graded stakes winners in open company. Are you seriously going to argue that Big Brown beating Coal Play and Cool Coal Man in the Haskell (106) or beating Macho Again and Ichabad Crane in the Preakness (100) or beating Smooth Air and Tomacito in the Florida Derby (106) mean more simply because they were grade ones? Seriously?

RollerDoc · #7 10-13-2008, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That assumption has nothing to do with your statement and that was that you can compare who had the better season by number of grade ones. By that logic, Vineyard Haven has had a better season than Commentator. And according to your logic, the BC Juvenile Fillies carries no more weight than the BC Classic since both are grade ones. All grade ones aren't created equal. Heatseeker won the grade two Californian, beating Tiago and Surf Cat with a 109 Beyer. Both of those horses are multiple graded stakes winners in open company. Are you seriously going to argue that Big Brown beating Coal Play and Cool Coal Man in the Haskell (106) or beating Macho Again and Ichabad Crane in the Preakness (100) or beating Smooth Air and Tomacito in the Florida Derby (106) mean more simply because they were grade ones? Seriously?

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

MaTH716 · #8 10-13-2008, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

Elysium Fields, but I am pretty sure BB was the favorite.

RollerDoc · #9 10-13-2008, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaTH716

Elysium Fields, but I am pretty sure BB was the favorite.

That's it! Thanks! I just looked it up and I guess he was a 3-1 second favorite.

King Glorious · #10 10-13-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

I didn't leave them off. Big Brown has beaten a couple of decent horses in Colonel John and Eight Belles. I was only using those other three races as examples of how just because a race is a grade one doesn't mean it has a tough field or is automatically a better race than one with a lower grade.

RollerDoc · #11 10-13-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I didn't leave them off. Big Brown has beaten a couple of decent horses in Colonel John and Eight Belles. I was only using those other three races as examples of how just because a race is a grade one doesn't mean it has a tough field or is automatically a better race than one with a lower grade.

But not every horse qualifies for a Grade 1? Are there better races that aren't Grade 1? Of course. Are there faster horses in non Grade 1 races? Not proportionately.

ateamstupid · #12 10-13-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RollerDoc

Seriously...I don't know. But all those horses you named is what was thrown at him and he beat them all. You left out Denis of Cork (not a bad horse), and Colonel John too (also very decent).

Off topic, I thought the FL Derby favorite was a horse named __________ Fields, but I cannot be for sure. Do you remember that horses name? It is driving me crazy.

Big Brown was the favorite. Elysium Fields was second choice and got injured during the race I believe.

hockey2315 · #13 10-13-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Big Brown was the favorite. Elysium Fields was second choice and got injured during the race I believe.

Dehydration I think. . .