9/27 (OSA): Goodwood Day (6 Gr. I stakes)

[King Glorious]

I've been very upset with Zenyatta's connections in the past for skipping the Hollywood Gold Cup and the Pacific Classic for easier competition. This time I can't be too upset because I think the second best horse on the program is Hystericalady, although her form on the junk is not nearly as good as on real dirt.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I've been very upset with Zenyatta's connections in the past for skipping the Hollywood Gold Cup and the Pacific Classic for easier competition. This time I can't be too upset because I think the second best horse on the program is Hystericalady, although her form on the junk is not nearly as good as on real dirt.

Running against colts would have been great and all, but there's something to be said for females going off form after facing colts.

Bayakoa (after the Big Cap), Paseana (after the Pacific Classic), Sharp Cat (after the SA Derby), Eliza (after the SA Derby), and Surfside (after the SA Derby), all lost their next starts at short prices when back in against their own gender.

Maybe, with the division so deep right now, the connections didn't want to risk their tenuous hold on the title.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Running against colts would have been great and all, but there's something to be said for females going off form after facing colts.

Bayakoa (after the Big Cap), Paseana (after the Pacific Classic), Sharp Cat (after the SA Derby), Eliza (after the SA Derby), and Surfside (after the SA Derby), all lost their next starts at short prices when back in against their own gender.

Maybe, with the division so deep right now, the connections didn't want to risk their tenuous hold on the title.

Bayakoa also ran second in the San Diego Hcp. She went on to do big things though later on. Same with Paseana. Sharp Cat rebounded to have an outstanding year. I don't know that Eliza went off form as much as she just lost to a very good horse in Dispute (Bonnie Miss, Gazelle, Beldame at 3, Spinster at 4). Her going off form could just as easily be attributed to facing Dispute as it is to facing Personal Hope. Surfside later ran a very good second in the BC Distaff and beat older males in the Clark. For every one of these that you mentioned, there's a Winning Colors, a Ouija Board, a Miesque, a Six Perfections, a Serena's Song, a Personal Ensign.....the list goes on and on. I don't think there is any proof whatsoever that says they will go off form after facing males. I think it's more about what competition you face and how hard you may have to run that may influence your immediate form coming back. If racing against the boys means you have to run a harder race, yes, it can be understood that the next one out may be a little flat. But sometimes, you have to run harder to win races in your own division than you do to win races outside of it. If they were worried about her being knocked out by a tough race against boys and suffering in her next start against her own sex, they could have tried it in June and had plenty of time to recover and show her best against the girls later, as each of your examples did.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Bayakoa also ran second in the San Diego Hcp. She went on to do big things though later on. Same with Paseana. Sharp Cat rebounded to have an outstanding year. I don't know that Eliza went off form as much as she just lost to a very good horse in Dispute (Bonnie Miss, Gazelle, Beldame at 3, Spinster at 4). Her going off form could just as easily be attributed to facing Dispute as it is to facing Personal Hope. Surfside later ran a very good second in the BC Distaff and beat older males in the Clark. For every one of these that you mentioned, there's a Winning Colors, a Ouija Board, a Miesque, a Six Perfections, a Serena's Song, a Personal Ensign.....the list goes on and on. I don't think there is any proof whatsoever that says they will go off form after facing males. I think it's more about what competition you face and how hard you may have to run that may influence your immediate form coming back. If racing against the boys means you have to run a harder race, yes, it can be understood that the next one out may be a little flat. But sometimes, you have to run harder to win races in your own division than you do to win races outside of it. If they were worried about her being knocked out by a tough race against boys and suffering in her next start against her own sex, they could have tried it in June and had plenty of time to recover and show her best against the girls later, as each of your examples did.

Well, just to be fair, 3 of the horses you mentioned were Europeans (yes, its a big difference), one was one of only 3 fillies to win the Derby, and the other was the only horse to retire unbeaten in major competition in over 90 years.

Personally, had the BC not been in CA, the only gripe I'd have is that Zenyatta didn't run at either Saratoga or Belmont, the way Azeri didn't and the way Ribboletta did. Your suggestion she should have run in the Hollywood Gold Cup is a bit outlandish, seeing how that race is 10f and at that point she had yet to run further than 8.5f. The Pacific Classic would have been fine, I suppose, if a little late in the season, but we all know what John Shireffs thinks about the Polytrack there. He wouldn't even start Tiago on it last year.

[Bobby Fischer]

If Zenyatta is impressive in the Lady's Secret - what next ?

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

If Zenyatta is impressive in the Lady's Secret - what next ?

Rematch with Ginger Punch so she can have her rightful coronation before everyone jumps the gun (she's only run 7 times), wanting her to run outside her division before she's even earned a championship.

She can run against colts next year. Or in the Clark.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Rematch with Ginger Punch so she can have her rightful coronation before everyone jumps the gun (she's only run 7 times), wanting her to run outside her division before she's even earned a championship.

She can run against colts next year. Or in the Clark.

Rightful coronation? Ok so what if Ginger Punch wins the race? If Ginger Punch wins, she's the champion. Even though they would be tied and Zenyatta kicked her ass on dirt. So in order for Zenyatta to win the title, she's got to beat her twice but for GP to win it, she's only got to win once. Yeah, that's fair.

I think that making the point that she's only run seven times so far is not looking at the state of today's game. If this were the 80's or early 90's, that would be different. But in today's game, seven races is a lot. Consider how many Ghostzapper had. Smarty Jones. Bernardini and Invasor. Candy Ride. Afleet Alex. Barbaro. Curlin. Big Brown. You can't compare today's standards to those of the past.

Also, what's so wrong with running outside of your division before you've won a championship? Many great fillies have done that.