3 year old filly Eclipse?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

proud spell gets it imo.......

i think so too, unless music note take the distaff.

[blackthroatedwind]

Clearly Zaftig deserves the Eclipse.

She beat Indian Blessing. Indian Blessing beat Proud Spell. Proud Spell beat Music Note.

Clearly Zaftig is better than all of them.

End of debate.

[Scurlogue Champ]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Clearly Zaftig deserves the Eclipse.

She beat Indian Blessing. Indian Blessing beat Proud Spell. Proud Spell beat Music Note.

Clearly Zaftig is better than all of them.

End of debate.

Nice analysis of the seventh at Belmont today. I went against you with the Tagg dropper and paid dearly.

[RolloTomasi]

She won the Silverbulletday, a Grade 3, at Fair Grounds. The Davona Dale is run at Gulfstream.

Actually, until a couple of years ago, the Silverbulletday was called the Davona Dale. My mistake.

I would still say that the creation of a seperate female sprint division title lessens Indian Blessing's claim on the 3yo title, though I realize a lot of her sprint wins were age restricted.

Its hard for me to believe that the voters will give her both Eclipses even in the event that she wins and the other two bomb horrendously on BC day.

[Betsy]

this thread has taken an unfortunate turn. Thanks for your responses, but I am sorry I even asked the question.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by Betsy

this thread has taken an unfortunate turn. Thanks for your responses, but I am sorry I even asked the question.

Really? What's so bad about it? Seems more civil than most threads on here to me. . .

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Really? What's so bad about it? Seems more civil than most threads on here to me. . .

Seriously. I thought this has been one of the more healthy and civil debates on here recently. What turn has it taken Betsy?

[King Glorious]

Indian Blessing has been the best 3yo filly of 2008. It's really that simple. The award doesn't say who's the best one at routing or who's the best one at sprinting. It ask who is the best one period and that answer is Indian Blessing. What I'm hoping for is Midnight Lute to not make the Sprint and Baffert enter IB in the open race against the boys. After she drills them there, then can we end this debate?

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Not to sound redundant, but if she's the best filly of '08, what is Zaftig? Because she pissed on Indian Blessing.

one race, before she learned to rate... i think Zatfigs a 1 hit wonder, where has she been ?

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Injured? And what about her other stakes wins? What were those?

hmm she had one other stakes win where she beat NO ONE, im sure even you dont look at that as anything special, i remember it well, she beat a way overbet Kiran filly, maybe a daughter of Forestry.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Not to sound redundant, but if she's the best filly of '08, what is Zaftig? Because she pissed on Indian Blessing.

A much better 3yo filly on that day?

The 3yo filly Eclipse should be resolved on Breeders Cup day - it's just a shame this Breeders Cup is being run over a surface other than dirt.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I agree about the surface thing. But isn't one of the giant problems in the game today the BC? Why should so much ride on one race?

let me ask you a question that i think is reasonable.... Are you high on Zatfig, or just in the mood to knock Indian Blessing ?

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

But isn't one of the giant problems in the game today the BC? Why should so much ride on one race?

If you compare it with other sports - It would be like saying "why should so much ride on one game?"

The Patriots had a much better overall season than the Giants last year - but the championship basically all boiled down to one game in Arizona.

I don't have a problem with the concept of the Breeders Cup at all - and the only people who seem to are the people who were around before the Breeders Cup started in '84.

The idea of having these great field of dirt horses compete over synthetic surfaces that are atleast as much like turf as they are dirt doesn't sit well with me.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I agree about the surface thing. But isn't one of the giant problems in the game today the BC? Why should so much ride on one race?

Absolutely NOT. The BC is not a problem of the game today. It wasn't a problem in previous years when trainers actually ran their horses in other races throughout the year AND ran in the BC. The problem is the way people train and race their horses these days. It's not the BC's fault that trainers like Dutrow don't want to run Kip Deville only 4-5 times in a year or that trainers like Frankel decide that they need to have their last prep in August or early September. Don't blame the BC for that. Also, don't blame the BC for the way Eclipse voters decide to vote. It's not the BC's fault that the top horses get together so infrequently during the year that the BC is often the only place they will meet each other. The concept of the BC was to bring together all of the best horses in each division for a championship day of racing and that's still what it does now. Well, two days but you get the point. If Curlin and Commentator do indeed run in the BC and they face Big Brown and Henrythenavigator, New Approach and Duke of Marmalade......where else outside of the Bc could you ever hope to have that kind of race? There are many problems in the sport. The BC is not one of them.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Not to sound redundant, but if she's the best filly of '08, what is Zaftig? Because she pissed on Indian Blessing.

Well, how about best/most accomplished 3yo filly? I do think your question is an interesting one though. Why not Zaftig for the Eclipse? I remember back in 2005 I was campaigning for Ghostzapper to win the Eclipse as HOY again even though he only raced once. The thinking is that the criteria says only that a horse has to have started at least once in North America. Think about it. How many times have we seen a European come over here and win one of the BC races and be named NA champion? Off the top, I know Miesque (twice), High Chaparral (twice, and he didn't even win his race outright the second time), Johannesburg, Daylami, Kalanisi, Ouija Board a couple of times. Then think about the cases of Arazi and Singspiel. Arazi not only won the Eclipse as top 2yo but was also one of that year's three finalist for HOY. Singspiel never actually won a race in the United States in his year (won the Canadian International and ran second in the BC Turf) and still won the title. So, since technically Zaftig has met the criteria, why not vote for her if you think she was the best 3yo filly to race in NA in 2008?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

You make an interesting point. Honestly, I try and stay away from the eclipse stuff, because it's a popularity contest IMO. I just disagree that Indian Blessing is far and away the top 3 year old filly this year. I'm not sure who is, and unfortunately we'll probably never know. But I do know that Zaftig beat Indian Blessing rather soundly, in a race Indian Blessing had a pace advantage in.

I believe IB is the best but I won't disagree with anyone that has a different opinion and definitely won't argue with anyone that doesn't agree that it's clear cut. It certainly isn't. If I had a vote, I think the way that I would vote would be for the horse that I thought was the best combination of most accomplished and best. I think that IB best combines what I'd look for.

[VOL JACK]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Clearly Zaftig deserves the Eclipse.

She beat Indian Blessing. Indian Blessing beat Proud Spell. Proud Spell beat Music Note.

Clearly Zaftig is better than all of them.

End of debate.

Damn it!!! You stole all my thunder.