3 year old filly Eclipse?

RolloTomasi · #1 09-20-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Was the 2002 3 year-old filly crop as stacked as this one?

Stacked? You got two horses outside of Eight Belles, who is the likely 3rd finalist. None have stepped up to face older mares. The Distaff is likely to decide it whether or not either one actually finishes first.

Its a very weak imitation of Sky Beauty versus Hollywood Wildcat in '93. I won't even come close to the blasphemy of suggesting its in the same time zone as Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo in '88.

hockey2315 · #2 09-20-2008, 08:54 PM

so we're ruling out Indian Blessing?

RolloTomasi · #3 09-20-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

so we're ruling out Indian Blessing?

Yes.

hockey2315 · #4 09-20-2008, 09:28 PM

Why exactly?

RolloTomasi · #5 09-20-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Why exactly?

Yes, she won the Davona Dale at Fair Grounds. That's a Grade 2. The other fillies bettered that accomplishment.

All her other wins are within the sprint division.

Put it this way, should Big Brown, winner of the Monmouth Stakes on grass, be considered seriously for the Turf Eclipse because he also won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness?

No.

blackthroatedwind · #6 09-20-2008, 09:47 PM

Just curious.....what would your position be on these same two horses ( Proud Spell and Music Note ) if Proud Spell was an AP Indy and Music Note was a Proud Citizen?

Betsy · #7 09-20-2008, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just curious.....what would your position be on these same two horses ( Proud Spell and Music Note ) if Proud Spell was an AP Indy and Music Note was a Proud Citizen?

I don't see why my answer in that regards would be relevant. I posted this question here because I thought (and I was right) that I could get honest answers without being picked on (I'm not saying you are, but I am tired of having to answer for my fandom). All I really said in this thread is that I think MN should be considered on equal footing with PS. I don't think that is so ridiculous a notion, certainly not so ridiculous that it's apparent that anyone that thinks that must be biased towards that filly because of her sire.

Danzig · #8 09-20-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Just curious.....what would your position be on these same two horses ( Proud Spell and Music Note ) if Proud Spell was an AP Indy and Music Note was a Proud Citizen?

you really have to ask?

hockey2315 · #9 09-20-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yes, she won the Davona Dale at Fair Grounds. That's a Grade 2. The other fillies bettered that accomplishment.

All her other wins are within the sprint division.

Put it this way, should Big Brown, winner of the Monmouth Stakes on grass, be considered seriously for the Turf Eclipse because he also won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness?

No.

What about Wait a While in '06? And your Big Brown analogy isn't analogous. . .

RolloTomasi · #10 09-20-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

What about Wait a While in '06? And your Big Brown analogy isn't analogous. . .

You talk about the 2002 crop being bad, how about the 2006 group? Lemons Forever, Bushfire, Pine Island? Personally either of the last two would have been acceptable since they won multiple Grade 1s (Smuggler won the award for Christ's sake)...

I don't think either Proud Spell, Music Note, or Eight Belles are mere ham sandwiches in this instance. The voters don't really have to look beyond the obvious races to find a suitable champion.

Since they've set up a female sprint division, Indian Blessing has become a specialist the way Xtra Heat was. She'll probably get her championship so long as she doesn't get tagged late by Intangaroo in the BC.

ateamstupid · #11 09-20-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yes, she won the Davona Dale at Fair Grounds. That's a Grade 2. The other fillies bettered that accomplishment.

All her other wins are within the sprint division.

Put it this way, should Big Brown, winner of the Monmouth Stakes on grass, be considered seriously for the Turf Eclipse because he also won the Kentucky Derby and Preakness?

No.

She won the Silverbulletday, a Grade 3, at Fair Grounds. The Davona Dale is run at Gulfstream.

The Big Brown analogy makes no sense. Last time I checked, the Eclipse is for best three-year-old filly, not best three-year-old filly router. Indian Blessing winning the Three-Year-Old Filly Eclipse would be nothing like Big Brown winning the Turf Eclipse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

Indian Blessing won a stake or two at the FG this year (one of which was ungraded, I think), the Test, another sprint stakes (not major) and this race today. If she wins the Filly and Mare Sprint, she deserves to be on the ballot for sure for 3 year old filly champion, but no - I don't think her resume stacks up as champion filly, not when PS and MN have done so much.

Indian Blessing has won two Grade 1's, two Grade 2's, a Grade 3, run second in a Grade 1 and second in a Grade 2. That resume isn't comparable to Music Note's? How do you figure?

And what if Indian Blessing wins the BC F&M Sprint and neither Proud Spell nor Music Note win the distaff? Indian Blessing will have two wins over elders, while Proud Spell and Music Note will have zero.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

proud spell gets it imo.......

Gun to my head, I'd say so too, but Jones' comments that she has it 'sewn up' were ridiculous.

Danzig · #12 09-20-2008, 11:20 PM

too true on indian blessing-she tried elders and won, while the others have stuck to their own age group.
i would have no problem at all with IB winning the eclipse.

and i think proud spell has more wins than music note has starts. and many forgive her loss to music note, as she had so much trouble-while in the music note loss to proud spell, music note had no excuse, she just couldn't pass a gutsy filly.

Pedigree Ann · #13 09-21-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

She won the Silverbulletday, a Grade 3, at Fair Grounds. The Davona Dale is run at Gulfstream.

Indian Blessing has won two Grade 1's,.....

The Prioress is a totally bogus G1, and the Test is questionable, too. And, yes, classic-distance animals will ALWAYS have the advantage over sprinters because that is the what being a Thoroughbred is all about - having the speed AND the stamina to keep going to win at a distance of ground in the best races. Pure sprinters, however talented, are lacking an important element in their makeup.

zippyneedsawin · #14 09-20-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Stacked? You got two horses outside of Eight Belles, who is the likely 3rd finalist. None have stepped up to face older mares. The Distaff is likely to decide it whether or not either one actually finishes first.

Its a very weak imitation of Sky Beauty versus Hollywood Wildcat in '93. I won't even come close to the blasphemy of suggesting its in the same time zone as Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo in '88.

So, if one finishes 7th and the other 8th.... it's the 7th place horse that gets the nod? what if another 3yo filly finishes ahead of both?
Proud Spell is still the front runner for this, unless Music Note wins the Ladies Classic... or both lose and Indian Blessing wins her race (she has to be considered as well, IMO)

RolloTomasi · #15 09-20-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

So, if one finishes 7th and the other 8th.... it's the 7th place horse that gets the nod? what if another 3yo filly finishes ahead of both?

Well, there's always a chance at a Dance Smartly-like surge to the title (she beat out archrivals Lite Light and Meadow Star, if you recall). Basically, Seattle Smooth is sort of in that position, though I highly doubt that horse will reappear in CA (unless Ernie Moody dictates it) and her form reversal is a bit dubious.

If they both run out in the Distaff, maybe that will help Eight Belle's chances, similar to Risen Star, Charismatic, and Prairie Bayou.