3 year old filly Eclipse?

hockey2315 · #1 09-20-2008, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

Why would MN have to win? She's 1-1 in a head to head match up and this was a bad loss for PS in the sense that it was a pretty terrible field. MN had to be penalized for her loss to PS, so PS definitely needs to be penalized for this loss.

I just can not see giving the title to Indian Blessing. I didn't even agree with Xtra Heat, but none of the 3 year old fillies that year did enough to secure the award. IB is up against two very good fillies in PS and Music Note that have done a lot this year. She'll very likely win the BC Distaff Sprint (or whatever it is it's called) and get the championship for female sprinter, which she would deserve.

Because the Eclipse awards are pretty much based on WINS - so MN runs a decent 3rd behind Zenyatta and Ginger Punch in the Ladies' Classic and that decides the Eclipse?

RolloTomasi · #2 09-20-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Because the Eclipse awards are pretty much based on WINS - so MN runs a decent 3rd behind Zenyatta and Ginger Punch in the Ladies' Classic and that decides the Eclipse?

I think that's how Farda Amiga won the Eclipse in 2002.

hockey2315 · #3 09-20-2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

I think that's how Farda Amiga won the Eclipse in 2002.

Was the 2002 3 year-old filly crop as stacked as this one?

RolloTomasi · #4 09-20-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Was the 2002 3 year-old filly crop as stacked as this one?

Stacked? You got two horses outside of Eight Belles, who is the likely 3rd finalist. None have stepped up to face older mares. The Distaff is likely to decide it whether or not either one actually finishes first.

Its a very weak imitation of Sky Beauty versus Hollywood Wildcat in '93. I won't even come close to the blasphemy of suggesting its in the same time zone as Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo in '88.

hockey2315 · #5 09-20-2008, 08:54 PM

so we're ruling out Indian Blessing?

RolloTomasi · #6 09-20-2008, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

so we're ruling out Indian Blessing?

Yes.

hockey2315 · #7 09-20-2008, 09:28 PM

Why exactly?

zippyneedsawin · #8 09-20-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Stacked? You got two horses outside of Eight Belles, who is the likely 3rd finalist. None have stepped up to face older mares. The Distaff is likely to decide it whether or not either one actually finishes first.

Its a very weak imitation of Sky Beauty versus Hollywood Wildcat in '93. I won't even come close to the blasphemy of suggesting its in the same time zone as Winning Colors and Goodbye Halo in '88.

So, if one finishes 7th and the other 8th.... it's the 7th place horse that gets the nod? what if another 3yo filly finishes ahead of both?
Proud Spell is still the front runner for this, unless Music Note wins the Ladies Classic... or both lose and Indian Blessing wins her race (she has to be considered as well, IMO)

RolloTomasi · #9 09-20-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

So, if one finishes 7th and the other 8th.... it's the 7th place horse that gets the nod? what if another 3yo filly finishes ahead of both?

Well, there's always a chance at a Dance Smartly-like surge to the title (she beat out archrivals Lite Light and Meadow Star, if you recall). Basically, Seattle Smooth is sort of in that position, though I highly doubt that horse will reappear in CA (unless Ernie Moody dictates it) and her form reversal is a bit dubious.

If they both run out in the Distaff, maybe that will help Eight Belle's chances, similar to Risen Star, Charismatic, and Prairie Bayou.

Betsy · #10 09-20-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

Because the Eclipse awards are pretty much based on WINS - so MN runs a decent 3rd behind Zenyatta and Ginger Punch in the Ladies' Classic and that decides the Eclipse?

And I guess Music Note hasn't won anything of note. You just said the awards are decided on wins .......well, Proud Spell just lost to a very mediocre bunch.

hockey2315 · #11 09-20-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

And I guess Music Note hasn't won anything of note. You just said the awards are decided on wins .......well, Proud Spell just lost to a very mediocre bunch.

She has obviously won some races of note, but Proud Spell beat her when they faced each other in a fairly run race. And Proud Spell also won the Oaks. She finished second to a pretty fast horse today. . . I'm not sure what you're arguing about since it seemed like you agreed that Proud Spell is still in the Eclipse lead as of right now. . . Whatever they do from here on will probably decide it as PS is far from a cinch.

RolloTomasi · #12 09-20-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I'm not sure what you're arguing about since it seemed like you agreed that Proud Spell is still in the Eclipse lead as of right now. . .

That was just passive-aggressive baiting to ferret out all the Proud Spell supporters. Too bad there's so many Indian Blessing fans, too.

Betsy · #13 09-20-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

She has obviously won some races of note, but Proud Spell beat her when they faced each other in a fairly run race. And Proud Spell also won the Oaks. She finished second to a pretty fast horse today. . . I'm not sure what you're arguing about since it seemed like you agreed that Proud Spell is still in the Eclipse lead as of right now. . . Whatever they do from here on will probably decide it as PS is far from a cinch.

Let me be clear that I am not knocking PS in any way...nor Indian Blessing. I just don't think IB has a resume that stacks up to PS or MN. In a weaker year, yes. As somone pointed out earlier, IB will very likely get the Eclipse for female sprinter. Also, I really don't see why PS is such a lead pipe cinch unless MN wins the Distaff, but I suppose it doesn't really matter. I have no clue as to how MN will handle the synthetic, but I suspect she won't handle it well at all. That will settle the question.

#14 09-21-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betsy

Let me be clear that I am not knocking PS in any way...nor Indian Blessing. I just don't think IB has a resume that stacks up to PS or MN. In a weaker year, yes. As somone pointed out earlier, IB will very likely get the Eclipse for female sprinter. Also, I really don't see why PS is such a lead pipe cinch unless MN wins the Distaff, but I suppose it doesn't really matter. I have no clue as to how MN will handle the synthetic, but I suspect she won't handle it well at all. That will settle the question.

Indian Blessing is already a champion, and can now rate, something she could not do earlier in the year, i think shes as good if not better then Music Note and Proud Spell, and if they faced today things could be different, especially with her clear pace advantage

hoovesupsideyourhead · #15 09-21-2008, 12:55 AM

no doubt if zaftig was right its a lock....imo

hockey2315 · #16 09-21-2008, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrfan

Indian Blessing is already a champion, and can now rate, something she could not do earlier in the year, i think shes as good if not better then Music Note and Proud Spell, and if they faced today things could be different, especially with her clear pace advantage

she's a very good sprinter but would have very little chance against those two right now going long. . .

Danzig · #17 09-21-2008, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315

she's a very good sprinter but would have very little chance against those two right now going long. . .

i don't know whether indian blessing could beat them or not, but i don't think that is how you're supposed to vote anyway-based on who would win a race. i think it's supposed to go to the most dominate horse in their division from spring til fall. indian blessing certainly fits the bill, and now has taken on older horses with success.
look back at azeri for example-there was no dominant male all year, but i'd imagine most would say street cry would have beaten her head to head. but he didn't dominate all year, and she did.

Indian Charlie · #18 09-21-2008, 04:41 AM

It's just a fun thing to speculate on, for most people, I'm going to guess.

If you really think about it, most things people seem to care about really don't matter much, if at all.

As for liking a sire, in my case, with Indian Charlie, I was fanatic about that horse when he broke his maiden. Along with Rahy and Cee's Tizzy, two of my other favorites when they ran, I couldn't see how they wouldn't be successful stallions when they retired and I really enjoyed watching their progeny run.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

I'm still trying to figure out why it matters to people who gets the eclipse. This is a good debate, don't get me wrong. But the eclipse is voted on by a panel of racing "journalists", whatever that means nowadays. I suppose it's the fairest way, but take a look at the voting from last year.

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/nat...rd-voting.aspx

Now, I have no objection to any of the winners. But, can someone tell me who voted for Court Vision and Kodiak Kowboy as 2 year old male? Or Cry and Catch me as 2 year old filly? Or Lava Man and Student Council as older male? Or Take D'Tour as older female? I could go on and on. I understand wanting to win the award, I'm sure it's nice to put in the trophy case. I just don't get why it would be important to someone with no connection to the horse. But, I also don't get why people fixate on a sire, so maybe it's me.