Lava Man Is The NUTS

[Pedigree Ann]

I consider Lava Man's poor race in the JC Gold Cup last year to be the direct result of his race in the Pacific Classic in his previous start. In case you have forgotten, in last year's PacClas, Lava Man attended a wickedly fast pace, pushed by a first class speed horse named Surf Cat. His great heart wouldn't let him quit the way Surf Cat did, so he finished within a length of the winner Borrego, still in there trying. He used up all his reserves and became so exhausted he had to be vanned off of the track. A horse doesn't come back as easily or as quickly from that kind of draining effort as from a normal race and it showed in New York. And if you paid attention to such things you would know about his difficulties in Japan, too, where he came out of the race with bloody feet.

I should also add, that not every horse that runs well on 8f and 9f tracks takes to Belmont; just look at Teammate - she absolutely stunk at Belmont, but the return to a smaller track, Saratoga, enabled her to once again be competitive. And it works the other way around, too - Sightseek would have been a champion if she could have transferred her Belmont form ANYWHERE else, but she couldn't. Silver Train is another who is lengths better at Belmont than anywhere else.

[Pedigree Ann]

What is a 'Grade 1 horse?' Is it a horse who has won a G1 race? Then Giacomo, Perfect Drift, and Good Reward certainly qualify, although the latter's G1 wins were on turf. Additionally, Super Frolic had a close third and fourth (in the BC Classic!) in G1s, Magnum had a close second and fourth in G1s, so only 2 members of the Pacific Classic field had not previously shown good form in G1 races. And all but one of these horses had won at G3 or G2 levels as well; these were not creampuffs.

And as to Sun King..., He has just finished second by a nose or so in two consecutive G1 races, the Whitney and the Met Mile. As a 2yo he was third in the BC Juvie and the Champagne, both G1s, and at 3 was second in the Haskell and third in the JC Gold Cup, both G1s. Yes, he has been beaten badly in a few of G1s as well, but horses are not machines (except Lava Man this year?) and this is a horse who needs a pace set-up to run his race. Sun King is a decent sort of horse who has been competitive at the G1 level since he was 2, not some jumped up allowance horse, like, say, Mayan King or Rathor.

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

What is a 'Grade 1 horse?' Is it a horse who has won a G1 race? Then Giacomo, Perfect Drift, and Good Reward certainly qualify, although the latter's G1 wins were on turf. Additionally, Super Frolic had a close third and fourth (in the BC Classic!) in G1s, Magnum had a close second and fourth in G1s, so only 2 members of the Pacific Classic field had not previously shown good form in G1 races. And all but one of these horses had won at G3 or G2 levels as well; these were not creampuffs.

And as to Sun King..., He has just finished second by a nose or so in two consecutive G1 races, the Whitney and the Met Mile. As a 2yo he was third in the BC Juvie and the Champagne, both G1s, and at 3 was second in the Haskell and third in the JC Gold Cup, both G1s. Yes, he has been beaten badly in a few of G1s as well, but horses are not machines (except Lava Man this year?) and this is a horse who needs a pace set-up to run his race. Sun King is a decent sort of horse who has been competitive at the G1 level since he was 2, not some jumped up allowance horse, like, say, Mayan King or Rathor.

Hey, Miss Snotnose ...

Why don't you just stick to copying and pasting reams of obscure and irrelevant data that your geek acolytes forward to you?

You regurgitate more wasteful material than a backed-up sewer ... but you do it very well ... so stick to that ... and stop revealing your ignorance on every other subject.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

Hey, Miss Snotnose ...

Why don't you just stick to copying and pasting reams of obscure and irrelevant data that your geek acolytes forward to you?

You regurgitate more wasteful material than a backed-up sewer ... but you do it very well ... so stick to that ... and stop revealing your ignorance on every other subject.

Coming from the King of ignorance, this post is hilarious. You contribute nothing but ill-witted rubbish to every thread you post on, but carry on.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Coming from the King of ignorance, this post is hilarious. You contribute nothing but ill-witted rubbish to every thread you post on, but carry on.

If it's ill-witted rubbish ... why do you revel in consuming it?

C'mon ... admit it ... you love reading my stuff ... doncha?

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

If it's ill-witted rubbish ... why do you revel in consuming it?

C'mon ... admit it ... you love reading my stuff ... doncha?

Oh of course... just like everyone else in here does.

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

Oh of course... just like everyone else in here does.

You pass the integrity test.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Pedigree Ann

I should also add, that not every horse that runs well on 8f and 9f tracks takes to Belmont; just look at Teammate - she absolutely stunk at Belmont, but the return to a smaller track, Saratoga, enabled her to once again be competitive. And it works the other way around, too - Sightseek would have been a champion if she could have transferred her Belmont form ANYWHERE else, but she couldn't. Silver Train is another who is lengths better at Belmont than anywhere else.

That's a very good point, maybe he did not care for Belmont. Churchill can be a paved highway and the California horses seem to take to it pretty well, it's something to consider...

[2MinsToPost]

Knock Lava all ya want

I know all of ya would love to be a part of this action in regards to ownership of Lava, etc.. Horse is making some money, winning some Grade 1's, is it not? Thank you have a nice day.

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

Knock Lava all ya want

I know all of ya would love to be a part of this action in regards to ownership of Lava, etc.. Horse is making some money, winning some Grade 1's, is it not? Thank you have a nice day.

Stupid thing to say. Noone argues any of what you just said, I myself have said the same thing. But the argument on this thread that hes HOY and can beat horses when shipped out of Cali is another story. If you have the guts, wanna make a bet on how he fares when shipped out of Cali? I'll give you post time odds when he runs, plus one point. If you feel so strongly about this you should be raring to go.

[2MinsToPost]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Stupid thing to say. Noone argues any of what you just said, I myself have said the same thing. But the argument on this thread that hes HOY and can beat horses when shipped out of Cali is another story. If you have the guts, wanna make a bet on how he fares when shipped out of Cali? I'll give you post time odds when he runs, plus one point. If you feel so strongly about this you should be raring to go.

No, I simply am pointing out the obvious.

No, I will not take you up on that bet either. Thanks anyway.

Originally Posted by 2MinsToPost

No, I simply am pointing out the obvious.

No, I will not take you up on that bet either. Thanks anyway.

So then what was the point of the post? Pointing out the obvious is fine but to represent those who doubt his success if shipped away from Cali as "haters" is not at all fair. I personally think hes one hell of a great story. A claim that makes all that loot and tries so damn hard. I love the horse and his story. But a perusal of what he has beaten in that stretch is basically a whos who of horses who get knocked for hanging, and horses who just aren't very good. I don't find it to be "hating" if someone questions his competition and how much home field advantage plays into things. hes a gelding, so there is no residual value in the shed. They have managed him to PERFECTION by maximizing his earning value in spots worth big cash at home. They deserve incredible kudos for this. Its what you do with a gelding. But I draw the line with those who say he leaves California and wins a race agaisnt grade one company this fall. Thats not gonna happen.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

So then what was the point of the post? Pointing out the obvious is fine but to represent those who doubt his success if shipped away from Cali as "haters" is not at all fair. I personally think hes one hell of a great story. A claim that makes all that loot and tries so damn hard. I love the horse and his story. But a perusal of what he has beaten in that stretch is basically a whos who of horses who get knocked for hanging, and horses who just aren't very good. I don't find it to be "hating" if someone questions his competition and how much home field advantage plays into things. hes a gelding, so there is no residual value in the shed. They have managed him to PERFECTION by maximizing his earning value in spots worth big cash at home. They deserve incredible kudos for this. Its what you do with a gelding. But I draw the line with those who say he leaves California and wins a race agaisnt grade one company this fall. Thats not gonna happen.

They haven't picked easy spots for him. They shipped him to New York and even shipped him to Japan. He lost in New York. So what. He obviously did not fire that day. Borrego won that race by 7 lengths and LM is much better than Borrego. LM's poor performance in New York is no more significant than Saint Liam's poor performance in California.

Your arguments are not very conistent. By the way, since you think those sheet figures work so well, why don't you look at LM's sheet figures. I don't even know what his figures are, but I can guarantee that he has run faster than all the east coast dogs that you think are so good. HE's run some huge races the last year 15 months. You swear by those sheet figures except for when they contradict your opinion.