So just WHO targets and kills civilians??

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Pgardn,
Honestly, I really DO have difficulty understanding the motivations that drive humans to be willing to die for this nonsense.
Now I expect the responses...DTS.."you're so naive", "such an idealist"...blah, blah, blah. "What? You didn't post something from common dreams?"
Colon cleansing!
More than enough to go around.


btw...stock tip of the day...invest in Marcal Paper products and the mfg. of "depends".

The conditions of severe poverty and hopelessness, with a good dose of brainwashing are the recipe for making the monsters you speak of. Again, we can try and rectify the production of monsters, but this is a long term process (and for God's sake for those of you who say it is all Israels fault look at the totalitarian leadership in the Middle East and how the Druze, Shiites, and Sunnis will go at each other with or without Israel).
The question that Israel must answer NOW is a monster stands before you, no matter how the monster was made, what are you going to do? The two statements presented above are so Republican (Dammit do something now, we will wade thru all the sh it we have caused later... hopefully...) and Democratic (well we know its not really your fault you are a monster, so how bout a nice talk while you slit my throat, shall we?)

I hate political parties for these obvious errors. Sorry to rant.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The conditions of severe poverty and hopelessness, with a good dose of brainwashing are the recipe for making the monsters you speak of. Again, we can try and rectify the production of monsters, but this is a long term process (and for God's sake for those of you who say it is all Israels fault look at the totalitarian leadership in the Middle East and how the Druze, Shiites, and Sunnis will go at each other with or without Israel).
The question that Israel must answer NOW is a monster stands before you, no matter how the monster was made, what are you going to do? The two statements presented above are so Republican (Dammit do something now, we will wade thru all the sh it we have caused later... hopefully...) and Democratic (well we know its not really your fault you are a monster, so how bout a nice talk while you slit my throat, shall we?)

I hate political parties for these obvious errors. Sorry to rant.

Pgardn,
Vali Nasr was on "Meet the Press" today. Interesting insights.
Here's a review of his book...

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0820-25.htm

[skippy3481]

Okay Dts, i have to comment now. Besides being a biased article it makes no sense. So its okay for hezbollah to fire rockets into israel and kill innocent people but now israel is a bigger terrorist for killing 23 children. Wow how can someone become so jaded.

Civilians are killed on both sides, thats what happens when weapons to solve problems. I feel sorry for people on both sides of the conflict, but that does not make israel terrorists. They didn't start the shooting, they just decided to fire back bigger. So where does the blame lie?

I just keep coming back and putting myself in their shoes.Let me paint a picture.
What if canada was filled with millions of people whose goal was to wipe the U.S. off the map. What if they started firing rockets into the northern US. How would be respond? Would we try to talk them down as people died or would we load are planes up and bomb them into submission. I think we both know the answer. All in all israel showed restraint because they could have absolutely rained destruction on lebanon and its population.

Let's face it-these people have been fighting for for 3000+ years, it's not going to stop overnight.

[SentToStud]

ok, Skippy, here's a couple questions for you:

1. Why the heck is the best the Israelis could do was fighting these guys to a draw?
2. Where did the Israeli resolve to win this war go?
3. Why the heck do the Israels love to negotiate so much? They gave up 400 prisoners for Elhanin a couple years back. 400!!!
4. So you know ANYTHING about the hundreds of Arab prisoners held illegally by Israel? Do you think the world, or at least the Arab world, should stand by idly while this goes on and on and on?

Originally Posted by SentToStud

ok, Skippy, here's a couple questions for you:

1. Why the heck is the best the Israelis could do was fighting these guys to a draw?
2. Where did the Israeli resolve to win this war go?
3. Why the heck do the Israels love to negotiate so much? They gave up 400 prisoners for Elhanin a couple years back. 400!!!
4. So you know ANYTHING about the hundreds of Arab prisoners held illegally by Israel? Do you think the world, or at least the Arab world, should stand by idly while this goes on and on and on?

1. As skippy stated, they could carpet bomb the country flat. They happen to have a sense of some morality and choose to try and avoid killing innocents. They held back big time. And Hezbollah uses the Western penchant to try and limit civilian casualties to its fullest advantage.

2. This is not over. Israel is giving France, Russia, China and the UN a chance to resolve the issue. When it is not resolved and they get rocketed again, there will be no doubt about the resolve to wipe S. Lebanon clean. And then make plans to do it again, and again. This thing is not over for the Israelis until they feel safe from rockets. Bottom line.

3. This is a very good point. Huge mistake negotiating with terrorists. May have even led to this whole mess. All Hezbollah may have wanted is some prisoners back. But the timing of the kidnapping was horrible.

4. Hundreds of Arabs held illegal in Israel? Holy ****skiis. Syria holds 10X more Arab prisoners illegally... Almost every country in that region holds more people illegally... Holy MOses. Iraq under Saddam held so many people and tortured them... this one was from left field STS.

Your a good man but #4 is just out there.

Hezbollah has gained credibility in regions where credibility means nothing.

[SentToStud]

[quote=Dixie Porter]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

ok, Skippy, here's a couple questions for you:

1. Why the heck is the best the Israelis could do was fighting these guys to a draw?
QUOTE]
Dateline: Tel Aviv, Israel

"Good morning Mr. and Mrs. America and all the ships at sea"

If this was a draw I'd hate to think what a Win would have looked like.

Anyway it was a good scrimage for the Big Game with Damascus/Tehran.

Anyone notice the week of war games being advertised in Iran. This obsever sees a little puddle under those two despot's panties.

As I said before, I was in S. Lebanon for about 10 hours. We had to wear masks to avoid the stench of death.

South Lebanon is old news. You should get your butt back to TelAviv to see the predicted bickering among the Israelis about "what went wrong" and also to see if the Israelis break their own world record for making the most unfavorable prisoner exchange ever (the odds on that are 1-9 that they will).

[skippy3481]

Dixie,
The answer to your question is quite simple. They do not want to be the ones to start world war 3. Lets face it. For a country israels size, they are absolutely loaded. They could carpet bomb lebanon off the map. The problem is if they start a giant pissing match they will end up with 100 million arabs at their doorstep and i know they aren't totally sure if the british/us will come help them. That leaves them 2 options
1-Bomb tactically and try to achieve your goals with a minimal loss of civilian life

2.Throw everything they have at syria-iran-lebanon-including the use of nukes.

THey choose 1 and they found out it didn't work which absolutely terrifies me because only one option is left and there is no way that israel is going to go down without a fight.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by skippy3481

Dixie,
The answer to your question is quite simple. They do not want to be the ones to start world war 3. Lets face it. For a country israels size, they are absolutely loaded. They could carpet bomb lebanon off the map. The problem is if they start a giant pissing match they will end up with 100 million arabs at their doorstep and i know they aren't totally sure if the british/us will come help them. That leaves them 2 options
1-Bomb tactically and try to achieve your goals with a minimal loss of civilian life

2.Throw everything they have at syria-iran-lebanon-including the use of nukes.

THey choose 1 and they found out it didn't work which absolutely terrifies me because only one option is left and there is no way that israel is going to go down without a fight.

Skippy,
You sound as crazy as Dubbya did at today's news conference.
He answered a question about Iraq by saying, "We will never leave while I'm in office." The "goals" remain unclear. I would have asked...what do you, Mr President, define as victory? Is it no WMD's, no Saddam? A stable democracy based on the will of the people?
Whenever any of those things happen, perhaps there will be reason to proclaim "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"
Unfortunately, in the meantime..an itty bitty civil war has gotten in the way.
And, as we all know, we are much safer now. Just leave your toothpaste home before you go to the airport.
"We have nothing to fear but..your wife's hair gel."


Back to Israel...mission accomplished? Right????
Their actions and results, though supported by the umm, err, ehh, present "administration", have only made US credibility in the region more tenuous. Hezbollah has the credibility, like it or not. They are rebuilding the country's infrastructure that Israel destroyed. Israel is also the one that has violated the current UN cease fire...twice.
So, they won't go down without a fight? They've already fought to a draw.
The US doesn't have sufficient forces to support current engagements in Afghanistan and Iraq. So, do you really think that the US will involve itself in conflict with Iran should Israel decide to become an aggressor in that situation? If Israel decides to use nukes, they will be bombed in kind by others that have same and are sympathetic to Iran.

So, if I'm reading your astute analysis of the situation correctly, #2 would be to use nukes against Syria-Lebanon-Iran.
Should they decide to follow your "advice", I'll give you my advice.
Go to the grocery store and buy a five pound jar of honey.
Take off your underwear and spread it all over your buttocks.
Then, spread your knees nice and wide with your puckered lips between them.
That way, you can kiss your sweet a ss goodbye.

Remind me if there is a need to fill a state department job...just make sure your resume doesn't include that minor detail about dropping out of the school for retarded diplomat wanna-bes...you won't get the job.
Keep trying. Maybe Canada will fire rockets towards the US, as you suggest.

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

I am about as far away as you can get from being "terrified".

The planes were deployed, armed and airborne in 73. If the Arabs crossed the Jordan there would have been a new map in the Middle East.

What you are terrified of has been on the table for 6 weeks, and CONTINUES to stay right there.

And dumb as the terrorists are ...

... some day they'll provide good reason for it to "fall off" the table ...

... and then there'll be lots of "fall out."