So just WHO targets and kills civilians??

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

But at the United Nations in New York, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni urged Secretary General Kofi Annan to ensure the complete disarmament of Hezbollah and to prevent it from being rearmed by Iran and Syria.

This is a "moment of truth" for the international community, she said. The world cannot "allow Hezbollah to rise again and threaten the future of the region."



This statement from Israel is BS. This will be Israel's reason for going back in a most severe manner. imo the UN will not be able to disarm Hezbollah and Israel will come right back to statements like this. The Israelis know right now that Hezbollah is being rearmed, they know this.

I am very sad to say round 2 will be devastation. This is a setup statement for a knockout punch. Israel knows that absolutely nothing was accomplished long term in round 1. No soldiers back, Hezbollah not wiped out, not even disarmed. It was a failure and there are vows within the military to not fail again in a confrontation like this. And the failure is now thought to be one of not going in to win and underestimating the enemy. The same mistake will not be made twice.

DTS, STS do you want Hezbollah disarmed? or do you want the above. I pray that somehow, someone understands what a second conflict will mean. A massacre.

Pgardn,
I sure would like Hezbollah disarmed.
I also would like to see Iran and North Korea disarmed.
Heck, while we're at it..I'd like to see every country disarmed.
The reality is that that's not going to happen any time soon.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Einstein shared similar views.
So...until the world's belligerents decide to employ other strategies to resolve "valid" grievances, seems to me that "colon cleansing" is the answer.
Just remember to stand way back...cause when the sh-t let's go, you best not be in the line of fire.

Honestly, I really DO have difficulty understanding the motivations that drive humans to be willing to die for this nonsense.
Now I expect the responses...DTS.."you're so naive", "such an idealist"...blah, blah, blah. "What? You didn't post something from common dreams?"
Colon cleansing!
More than enough to go around.


btw...stock tip of the day...invest in Marcal Paper products and the mfg. of "depends".

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Pgardn,
Honestly, I really DO have difficulty understanding the motivations that drive humans to be willing to die for this nonsense.
Now I expect the responses...DTS.."you're so naive", "such an idealist"...blah, blah, blah. "What? You didn't post something from common dreams?"
Colon cleansing!
More than enough to go around.


btw...stock tip of the day...invest in Marcal Paper products and the mfg. of "depends".

The conditions of severe poverty and hopelessness, with a good dose of brainwashing are the recipe for making the monsters you speak of. Again, we can try and rectify the production of monsters, but this is a long term process (and for God's sake for those of you who say it is all Israels fault look at the totalitarian leadership in the Middle East and how the Druze, Shiites, and Sunnis will go at each other with or without Israel).
The question that Israel must answer NOW is a monster stands before you, no matter how the monster was made, what are you going to do? The two statements presented above are so Republican (Dammit do something now, we will wade thru all the sh it we have caused later... hopefully...) and Democratic (well we know its not really your fault you are a monster, so how bout a nice talk while you slit my throat, shall we?)

I hate political parties for these obvious errors. Sorry to rant.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The conditions of severe poverty and hopelessness, with a good dose of brainwashing are the recipe for making the monsters you speak of. Again, we can try and rectify the production of monsters, but this is a long term process (and for God's sake for those of you who say it is all Israels fault look at the totalitarian leadership in the Middle East and how the Druze, Shiites, and Sunnis will go at each other with or without Israel).
The question that Israel must answer NOW is a monster stands before you, no matter how the monster was made, what are you going to do? The two statements presented above are so Republican (Dammit do something now, we will wade thru all the sh it we have caused later... hopefully...) and Democratic (well we know its not really your fault you are a monster, so how bout a nice talk while you slit my throat, shall we?)

I hate political parties for these obvious errors. Sorry to rant.

Pgardn,
Vali Nasr was on "Meet the Press" today. Interesting insights.
Here's a review of his book...

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0820-25.htm

[skippy3481]

Okay Dts, i have to comment now. Besides being a biased article it makes no sense. So its okay for hezbollah to fire rockets into israel and kill innocent people but now israel is a bigger terrorist for killing 23 children. Wow how can someone become so jaded.

Civilians are killed on both sides, thats what happens when weapons to solve problems. I feel sorry for people on both sides of the conflict, but that does not make israel terrorists. They didn't start the shooting, they just decided to fire back bigger. So where does the blame lie?

I just keep coming back and putting myself in their shoes.Let me paint a picture.
What if canada was filled with millions of people whose goal was to wipe the U.S. off the map. What if they started firing rockets into the northern US. How would be respond? Would we try to talk them down as people died or would we load are planes up and bomb them into submission. I think we both know the answer. All in all israel showed restraint because they could have absolutely rained destruction on lebanon and its population.

Let's face it-these people have been fighting for for 3000+ years, it's not going to stop overnight.

[SentToStud]

ok, Skippy, here's a couple questions for you:

1. Why the heck is the best the Israelis could do was fighting these guys to a draw?
2. Where did the Israeli resolve to win this war go?
3. Why the heck do the Israels love to negotiate so much? They gave up 400 prisoners for Elhanin a couple years back. 400!!!
4. So you know ANYTHING about the hundreds of Arab prisoners held illegally by Israel? Do you think the world, or at least the Arab world, should stand by idly while this goes on and on and on?

Originally Posted by SentToStud

ok, Skippy, here's a couple questions for you:

1. Why the heck is the best the Israelis could do was fighting these guys to a draw?
2. Where did the Israeli resolve to win this war go?
3. Why the heck do the Israels love to negotiate so much? They gave up 400 prisoners for Elhanin a couple years back. 400!!!
4. So you know ANYTHING about the hundreds of Arab prisoners held illegally by Israel? Do you think the world, or at least the Arab world, should stand by idly while this goes on and on and on?

1. As skippy stated, they could carpet bomb the country flat. They happen to have a sense of some morality and choose to try and avoid killing innocents. They held back big time. And Hezbollah uses the Western penchant to try and limit civilian casualties to its fullest advantage.

2. This is not over. Israel is giving France, Russia, China and the UN a chance to resolve the issue. When it is not resolved and they get rocketed again, there will be no doubt about the resolve to wipe S. Lebanon clean. And then make plans to do it again, and again. This thing is not over for the Israelis until they feel safe from rockets. Bottom line.

3. This is a very good point. Huge mistake negotiating with terrorists. May have even led to this whole mess. All Hezbollah may have wanted is some prisoners back. But the timing of the kidnapping was horrible.

4. Hundreds of Arabs held illegal in Israel? Holy ****skiis. Syria holds 10X more Arab prisoners illegally... Almost every country in that region holds more people illegally... Holy MOses. Iraq under Saddam held so many people and tortured them... this one was from left field STS.

Your a good man but #4 is just out there.

Hezbollah has gained credibility in regions where credibility means nothing.

[SentToStud]

[quote=Dixie Porter]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

ok, Skippy, here's a couple questions for you:

1. Why the heck is the best the Israelis could do was fighting these guys to a draw?
QUOTE]
Dateline: Tel Aviv, Israel

"Good morning Mr. and Mrs. America and all the ships at sea"

If this was a draw I'd hate to think what a Win would have looked like.

Anyway it was a good scrimage for the Big Game with Damascus/Tehran.

Anyone notice the week of war games being advertised in Iran. This obsever sees a little puddle under those two despot's panties.

As I said before, I was in S. Lebanon for about 10 hours. We had to wear masks to avoid the stench of death.

South Lebanon is old news. You should get your butt back to TelAviv to see the predicted bickering among the Israelis about "what went wrong" and also to see if the Israelis break their own world record for making the most unfavorable prisoner exchange ever (the odds on that are 1-9 that they will).

[skippy3481]

Dixie,
The answer to your question is quite simple. They do not want to be the ones to start world war 3. Lets face it. For a country israels size, they are absolutely loaded. They could carpet bomb lebanon off the map. The problem is if they start a giant pissing match they will end up with 100 million arabs at their doorstep and i know they aren't totally sure if the british/us will come help them. That leaves them 2 options
1-Bomb tactically and try to achieve your goals with a minimal loss of civilian life

2.Throw everything they have at syria-iran-lebanon-including the use of nukes.

THey choose 1 and they found out it didn't work which absolutely terrifies me because only one option is left and there is no way that israel is going to go down without a fight.