So just WHO targets and kills civilians??

Originally Posted by SentToStud

When the UN issues a resolution condemning some Israeli action (whatever it may be), it always, always, gets voted 13-1. The U.S. always "rejects" the resolution. No questions asked. The Arab street does not differentiate between Israel and the U.S., which while not disingenuous or regretable, sure as heck is lamentable.
regards,
-s2s

The majority is not always right. I would agree we have a unique relationship with Israel. We have voted for some things that I would not agree with and would go with the rest of the world. But when you say 13-1 you have to look who is voting. Do you expect China and Russia to vote with US? Do you expect France which has very close ties with the Arab world to vote with US? Would you expect some very antisemitic European countries to vote with Israel?

And really we need not get into UN resolutions getting voted for or against... when the UN votes to remove arms from Hezbollah and then no one except the US and Britian bring up this resolution??? And now Lebanon says Hezbollah will not be forced to disarm... Unbelievable.

Round 1 is over. Nothing has been solved. Israel will wait until more rockets are fired in the future, point back to this cease-fire and UN troops inability to stop an Iranian puppet, use this as lessoned learned and go in much more forcefully. Lebanon's puppet government has set up more innocent people for slaughter to blame on Israel. The extremists will not be able to hold back... There is no country within a country crap anymore.

How was the current situation started? Hezbollah came across the border and did what? ANd for what purpose? The timing was....
Israel now knows many more rockets await as Iran rearms Hezbollah and plan for a far more destructive encounter in the future. Thats just wonderful news for all. You just know this is exactly what is happening. Good news for Iran. For southern Lebanon... sadly, dead people dont complain. I fear next time you will not see TV coverage of people in Southern Lebanon streaming North trying to uncover their dead relatives bodies before they leave. They wont complain just like the 30,000 people that were slaughtered in one very large quick massacre in Hama Syria carried out by the elder Assad.

Ever heard of this massacre? Arab v. Arab. You say Iraq considers US soldiers Jews while Shia slaughters Sunni and vice versa in much larger numbers than have occurred in Lebanon. They want us out so one of the two groups can take over and then turn on the Kurds. Wonderful.

But at the United Nations in New York, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni urged Secretary General Kofi Annan to ensure the complete disarmament of Hezbollah and to prevent it from being rearmed by Iran and Syria.

This is a "moment of truth" for the international community, she said. The world cannot "allow Hezbollah to rise again and threaten the future of the region."



This statement from Israel is BS. This will be Israel's reason for going back in a most severe manner. imo the UN will not be able to disarm Hezbollah and Israel will come right back to statements like this. The Israelis know right now that Hezbollah is being rearmed, they know this.

I am very sad to say round 2 will be devastation. This is a setup statement for a knockout punch. Israel knows that absolutely nothing was accomplished long term in round 1. No soldiers back, Hezbollah not wiped out, not even disarmed. It was a failure and there are vows within the military to not fail again in a confrontation like this. And the failure is now thought to be one of not going in to win and underestimating the enemy. The same mistake will not be made twice.

DTS, STS do you want Hezbollah disarmed? or do you want the above. I pray that somehow, someone understands what a second conflict will mean. A massacre.

[SentToStud]

Originally Posted by pgardn

But at the United Nations in New York, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni urged Secretary General Kofi Annan to ensure the complete disarmament of Hezbollah and to prevent it from being rearmed by Iran and Syria.

This is a "moment of truth" for the international community, she said. The world cannot "allow Hezbollah to rise again and threaten the future of the region."



This statement from Israel is BS. This will be Israel's reason for going back in a most severe manner. imo the UN will not be able to disarm Hezbollah and Israel will come right back to statements like this. The Israelis know right now that Hezbollah is being rearmed, they know this.

I am very sad to say round 2 will be devastation. This is a setup statement for a knockout punch. Israel knows that absolutely nothing was accomplished long term in round 1. No soldiers back, Hezbollah not wiped out, not even disarmed. It was a failure and there are vows within the military to not fail again in a confrontation like this. And the failure is now thought to be one of not going in to win and underestimating the enemy. The same mistake will not be made twice.

DTS, STS do you want Hezbollah disarmed? or do you want the above. I pray that somehow, someone understands what a second conflict will mean. A massacre.

1. of course, I want Hezbollah disarmed
2. I agree the statement from Israel is BS
3. I do not promote or condone the Hezbollah violence, just try to understand it in the wider and necessary context.
4. Round 2 will be worse than round 1, I agree.

There's no good guy winners here. The Lebanese, already a fledgling democracy before this, are now frail and fragile. And if the gov't there fails, the next man up is, indeed Hezbollah. Bad for Lebanon, worse for the overal region, including Israel.

The Israelis certainly do not appear winners and it certainly appears Olmert and the Kadima party are done. The problem with running a centrrist party is that you get sniped at on both sides as Olmert is learning.

The Palestinians/Hamas-led leaders are losers as well. The freest elections ever held in Palestine are going to have been an exercise in futility. The most likely new Israeli power will absolutely no longer withdraw from occupied Palestinian land or close settlements, further pushing away from any chance for real peace in the region. The Arab world will see more "starvation blockades," courtesy of the Israeli hardliners.

And, of course, the rest of the civilized Western World, courtesy of Pres. Bush and blindly loyal American support of Israel is a big loser. The U.S. influence at the UN, blocking early cerase-fire efforts, supplying Israel wth its arms and especially our pre-attack support of the Israeli offensive obviously backfired as the goal of disarming Hezbollah was not remotely close to being achieved.

Moving forward, we'll see the fringe Islamist groups continue to gain traction while Bush gets urged by his dwindling base tp push forward and hard on Iran as his last chance to save his presidency in the eyes of his final few supporters.

pgardn, sorry if you find my comments offensive, but this is how many people see the world. And in turn, you can be assured I am not offended when you call me disingenuous or whatever other term you choose to use.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

But at the United Nations in New York, Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni urged Secretary General Kofi Annan to ensure the complete disarmament of Hezbollah and to prevent it from being rearmed by Iran and Syria.

This is a "moment of truth" for the international community, she said. The world cannot "allow Hezbollah to rise again and threaten the future of the region."



This statement from Israel is BS. This will be Israel's reason for going back in a most severe manner. imo the UN will not be able to disarm Hezbollah and Israel will come right back to statements like this. The Israelis know right now that Hezbollah is being rearmed, they know this.

I am very sad to say round 2 will be devastation. This is a setup statement for a knockout punch. Israel knows that absolutely nothing was accomplished long term in round 1. No soldiers back, Hezbollah not wiped out, not even disarmed. It was a failure and there are vows within the military to not fail again in a confrontation like this. And the failure is now thought to be one of not going in to win and underestimating the enemy. The same mistake will not be made twice.

DTS, STS do you want Hezbollah disarmed? or do you want the above. I pray that somehow, someone understands what a second conflict will mean. A massacre.

Pgardn,
I sure would like Hezbollah disarmed.
I also would like to see Iran and North Korea disarmed.
Heck, while we're at it..I'd like to see every country disarmed.
The reality is that that's not going to happen any time soon.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Einstein shared similar views.
So...until the world's belligerents decide to employ other strategies to resolve "valid" grievances, seems to me that "colon cleansing" is the answer.
Just remember to stand way back...cause when the sh-t let's go, you best not be in the line of fire.

Honestly, I really DO have difficulty understanding the motivations that drive humans to be willing to die for this nonsense.
Now I expect the responses...DTS.."you're so naive", "such an idealist"...blah, blah, blah. "What? You didn't post something from common dreams?"
Colon cleansing!
More than enough to go around.


btw...stock tip of the day...invest in Marcal Paper products and the mfg. of "depends".

Originally Posted by Downthestretch55

Pgardn,
Honestly, I really DO have difficulty understanding the motivations that drive humans to be willing to die for this nonsense.
Now I expect the responses...DTS.."you're so naive", "such an idealist"...blah, blah, blah. "What? You didn't post something from common dreams?"
Colon cleansing!
More than enough to go around.


btw...stock tip of the day...invest in Marcal Paper products and the mfg. of "depends".

The conditions of severe poverty and hopelessness, with a good dose of brainwashing are the recipe for making the monsters you speak of. Again, we can try and rectify the production of monsters, but this is a long term process (and for God's sake for those of you who say it is all Israels fault look at the totalitarian leadership in the Middle East and how the Druze, Shiites, and Sunnis will go at each other with or without Israel).
The question that Israel must answer NOW is a monster stands before you, no matter how the monster was made, what are you going to do? The two statements presented above are so Republican (Dammit do something now, we will wade thru all the sh it we have caused later... hopefully...) and Democratic (well we know its not really your fault you are a monster, so how bout a nice talk while you slit my throat, shall we?)

I hate political parties for these obvious errors. Sorry to rant.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by pgardn

The conditions of severe poverty and hopelessness, with a good dose of brainwashing are the recipe for making the monsters you speak of. Again, we can try and rectify the production of monsters, but this is a long term process (and for God's sake for those of you who say it is all Israels fault look at the totalitarian leadership in the Middle East and how the Druze, Shiites, and Sunnis will go at each other with or without Israel).
The question that Israel must answer NOW is a monster stands before you, no matter how the monster was made, what are you going to do? The two statements presented above are so Republican (Dammit do something now, we will wade thru all the sh it we have caused later... hopefully...) and Democratic (well we know its not really your fault you are a monster, so how bout a nice talk while you slit my throat, shall we?)

I hate political parties for these obvious errors. Sorry to rant.

Pgardn,
Vali Nasr was on "Meet the Press" today. Interesting insights.
Here's a review of his book...

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0820-25.htm

[skippy3481]

Okay Dts, i have to comment now. Besides being a biased article it makes no sense. So its okay for hezbollah to fire rockets into israel and kill innocent people but now israel is a bigger terrorist for killing 23 children. Wow how can someone become so jaded.

Civilians are killed on both sides, thats what happens when weapons to solve problems. I feel sorry for people on both sides of the conflict, but that does not make israel terrorists. They didn't start the shooting, they just decided to fire back bigger. So where does the blame lie?

I just keep coming back and putting myself in their shoes.Let me paint a picture.
What if canada was filled with millions of people whose goal was to wipe the U.S. off the map. What if they started firing rockets into the northern US. How would be respond? Would we try to talk them down as people died or would we load are planes up and bomb them into submission. I think we both know the answer. All in all israel showed restraint because they could have absolutely rained destruction on lebanon and its population.

Let's face it-these people have been fighting for for 3000+ years, it's not going to stop overnight.

[SentToStud]

ok, Skippy, here's a couple questions for you:

1. Why the heck is the best the Israelis could do was fighting these guys to a draw?
2. Where did the Israeli resolve to win this war go?
3. Why the heck do the Israels love to negotiate so much? They gave up 400 prisoners for Elhanin a couple years back. 400!!!
4. So you know ANYTHING about the hundreds of Arab prisoners held illegally by Israel? Do you think the world, or at least the Arab world, should stand by idly while this goes on and on and on?

Originally Posted by Dixie Porter

Syria and Iran (courageous as they are) wll fight untill the last Lebonese and the last Palestinian are dead.

Unless some bizzare abberation takes place the assault and destuction of Iran will not start until about 6 months before the upcoming Presidential election in 08. Americans do not change horses in wartime. Overwelming destruction and death in Iran/Syria is the ticket Condi, Knute or Rudi will ride into the White House.

Some of my pupils from ****** took me into So. Lebanon yesterday. I have never seen nor smelled anything like that in my entire life. The BS being yakked about Hezz financing and aiding in rebuilding the destruction is just that, BS.

Nasrahllah, Assad and that psycho from Iran are "dead men walking".

• Israel needs new leadership ... Olmert = Chamberlain ... Bibi = Churchill

• The next war will not be tied to the U.S. election cycle ... it will be provoked at random by the deluded Islamists who think they "won" this one.

• Let's hope the next war will be decided by a combination of killing the top terrorists ... Ahmadinejad, Khamenei, Assad, Nasrullah, Princequillo ... and provoking a popular uprising in Iran ... rather than by the severe destruction ... Germay/Japan-style ... of entire nations.

But ... no matter how it goes ... the deluded Islamists are in for a rude awakening ... or rather ... a rude deadening.

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

• Israel needs new leadership ... Olmert = Chamberlain ... Bibi = Churchill

Olmert... maybe... a little early for that, he may have learned his lesson. Bibi = Mussolini

[Scurlogue Champ]

I have been reading some stuff on this website and it is interesting.

Don't really know what to make of all of it, but it seems to be written from an educated point of view.

I stay up too late and type in things like "How dangerous is China" too often in the Google bar.

[Scurlogue Champ]

I have been reading some stuff on this website and it is interesting.

Don't really know what to make of all of it, but it seems to be written from an educated point of view.

I stay up too late and type in things like "How dangerous is China" too often in the Google bar.

http://www.d-n-i.net/

[Downthestretch55]

S2S,
This is for you.
I came across it today...and I thought you might find the read interesting.
There will be a few that point a finger at me for posting this, but I really don't care.
It's so ironic to me that the place where Jesus preformed His first miracle, Cana, is now the same place, Qana, in desperate need for another miracle.


http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0819-26.htm

And, btw...anyone that thinks of bashing me for posting this from "Common Dreams"...read it first. Talk about the content later.
Or don't.

DTS