Trying To Make Money On Big Brown Today...

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Gander

Curlin is a great horse. In today's world hes a super horse. Not denying his ability but lets not pretend he hasnt lost races and had his fair share of days when he didnt fire his best shots.
I think hes better than Big Brown but I wouldnt laugh and ridicule someone who thought otherwise. I just dont think Curlin has done nearly enough to make the argument a stupid one.

I don't remember Curlin having any 'bad days', which is pretty damn remarkable considering the schedule that he had last year. He never had any chance in the Haskell, because it was impossible to close any ground on that track.

If Big Brown raced the schedule that Curlin did at three, he wouldve collapsed in the Belmont even earlier than he did and never been heard from again.

I agree that Curlin's legend is being inflated a bit because of the lack of good handicap horses recently, but he's better than Big Brown. It's not even close.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't remember Curlin having any 'bad days', which is pretty damn remarkable considering the schedule that he had last year. He never had any chance in the Haskell, because it was impossible to close any ground on that track.

If Big Brown raced the schedule that Curlin did at three, he wouldve collapsed in the Belmont even earlier than he did and never been heard from again.

I agree that Curlin's legend is being inflated a bit because of the lack of good handicap horses recently, but he's better than Big Brown. It's not even close.

I didnt say bad days, I just said days where he didnt run his best. Sure, Big Brown's Belmont was way worse than any race Curlin ever ran, true dat. I know Curlin had a very tough trip in the KY Derby, and for him to finish 3rd was pretty darn good. Didnt he have a perfect trip in the Belmont though, and still lost?

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Gander

I didnt say bad days, I just said days where he didnt run his best. Sure, Big Brown's Belmont was way worse than any race Curlin ever ran, true dat. I know Curlin had a very tough trip in the KY Derby, and for him to finish 3rd was pretty darn good. Didnt he have a perfect trip in the Belmont though, and still lost?

He got beaten a neck by a horse that's way better than anybody Big Brown has faced. Plus, consider that it was his sixth start since February, three weeks after running his eyeballs out to beat Street Sense in the Preakness. Do you think Big Brown would've done better in that situation?

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

what if hard spun would have stayed around..would curlin look so good now..

[Gander]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He got beaten a neck by a horse that's way better than anybody Big Brown has faced. Plus, consider that it was his sixth start since February, three weeks after running his eyeballs out to beat Street Sense in the Preakness. Do you think Big Brown would've done better in that situation?

I dont really know. Its impossible to say. I was surprised Big Brown bounced back so quick (2 weeks) to crush the field in the Preakness. I dont think you are giving him enough credit for 2 reasons:

His lack of comeptition (not his fault)
His no show in the Belmont (still a question as to why)

Look, he was all out to win the Haskell, so maybe he is all done. But you have to be impressed with a horse who won from those outside posts in the Florida Derby and KY Derby. I dont care who he beat.

I think Curlin's competition was indeed very good so its obviously a no brainer that most think Curlin is the better horse (myself included). But I wouldnt ridicule those who think Big Brown is as good.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

He got beaten a neck by a horse that's way better than anybody Big Brown has faced. Plus, consider that it was his sixth start since February, three weeks after running his eyeballs out to beat Street Sense in the Preakness. Do you think Big Brown would've done better in that situation?

I might get in trouble for saying this.. and I love Rags to Riches as much as anyone!

But this is just a question I am wondering your opinion... especially since I know how you feel about Rags too... How much better is Rags to Riches than Eight Belles??

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

I might get in trouble for saying this.. and I love Rags to Riches as much as anyone!

But this is just a question I am wondering your opinion... especially since I know how you feel about Rags too... How much better is Rags to Riches than Eight Belles??

not interested in answering this o.e.y??? or do you actually have a life unlike me..

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Antitrust32

not interested in answering this o.e.y??? or do you actually have a life unlike me..

I never said anything bad about Rags to Riches. I said she wasn't a 'monster'. She was definitely better than Eight Belles.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't remember Curlin having any 'bad days', which is pretty damn remarkable considering the schedule that he had last year. He never had any chance in the Haskell, because it was impossible to close any ground on that track.

If Big Brown raced the schedule that Curlin did at three, he wouldve collapsed in the Belmont even earlier than he did and never been heard from again.

I agree that Curlin's legend is being inflated a bit because of the lack of good handicap horses recently, but he's better than Big Brown. It's not even close.

I agree with everything you're saying except for this - for the simple fact that Curlin and Any Given Saturday had very similar trips. Curlin was only a length or two behind AGS for most of the race and the two of them were right next to each other at the top of the stretch. If anything Albarado may have moved too soon on Curlin, but I think it's fair to say that Curlin had a bit of an off day in the Haskell - even if it was still an ok performance.

The things that Dutrow said about Curlin are really ridiculous and absurd - you'd think that he would be smart enough to keep his mouth shut this time. I especially enjoyed "Curlin got beat by a filly, we didn't." Well, Dick, you got beat by the whole field in that same race the next year - including a maiden. And "Our horse in undefeated on the grass. Curlin isn't." Aside from the fact that he wasn't "your" horse when he won his ONE start on grass, that was in a MSW vs. nobody while Curlin's was in a Grade 1 vs. two BC winners.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I agree with everything you're saying except for this - for the simple fact that Curlin and Any Given Saturday had very similar trips. Curlin was only a length or two behind AGS for most of the race and the two of them were right next to each other at the top of the stretch. If anything Albarado may have moved too soon on Curlin, but I think it's fair to say that Curlin had a bit of an off day in the Haskell - even if it was still an ok performance.

The things that Dutrow said about Curlin are really ridiculous and absurd - you'd think that he would be smart enough to keep his mouth shut this time. I especially enjoyed "Curlin got beat by a filly, we didn't." Well, Dick, you got beat by the whole field in that same race the next year - including a maiden. And "Our horse in undefeated on the grass. Curlin isn't." Aside from the fact that he wasn't "your" horse when he won his ONE start on grass, that was in a MSW vs. nobody while Curlin's was in a Grade 1 vs. two BC winners.

I completely forgot about Curlin's Haskell. I didnt think it was a good effort at all. But he gets a free pass because Any Given Saturday and Hard Spun ran
first and second and they were great horses.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by hockey2315

I agree with everything you're saying except for this - for the simple fact that Curlin and Any Given Saturday had very similar trips. Curlin was only a length or two behind AGS for most of the race and the two of them were right next to each other at the top of the stretch. If anything Albarado may have moved too soon on Curlin, but I think it's fair to say that Curlin had a bit of an off day in the Haskell - even if it was still an ok performance.

It was impossible to make up ground that day/weekend. Any Given Saturday just ran a gigantic race and I think it helped knock him out for the rest of the year.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It was impossible to make up ground that day/weekend. Any Given Saturday just ran a gigantic race and I think it helped knock him out for the rest of the year.

LOL, it was the only time I ever needed Curlin to win from a wagering standpoint. I thought he had every chance to win and great horses overcome track biases. Just look at Ghostzapper in the Kings Bishop. If there was ever a more speed biased track than that day, I'd like to hear about it. I know he lost the race but he sure made up a ton of ground.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Gander

LOL, it was the only time I ever needed Curlin to win from a wagering standpoint. I thought he had every chance to win and great horses overcome track biases. Just look at Ghostzapper in the Kings Bishop. If there was ever a more speed biased track than that day, I'd like to hear about it. I know he lost the race but he sure made up a ton of ground.

Don't look for an anti-Ghostzapper argument from me.

[Gander]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Don't look for an anti-Ghostzapper argument from me.

I remember you being a huge fan. I didnt like the fact he only ran 4-5 times a year, but man, he could turn heads. What a turn of foot from any position in the pack.

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

It was impossible to make up ground that day/weekend. Any Given Saturday just ran a gigantic race and I think it helped knock him out for the rest of the year.

It couldn't have been impossible if AGS did it