Fastest injury recovery ever?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

This is a classic! That implys that all trainers arent stupid (not true) and that my friend is a compliment. We seem to think that people who believe what is written in the racing form as news as closer to the naive side than stupid. I wonder how you know exactly what is going on enough to call people liars.

I wasn't speaking in absolutes dude, as evidenced by my wording. This perhaps puts you into the sub-group of trainers that isn't complimented by my previous post.

As for the inane point you make about knowing exactly what is going on enough to call people liars? Let's see if your trainer mind can handle this logic.

1. The trainer of Fabulous Strike (FS) scratches out of the race at Saratoga citing an injury that will keep him from racing for at least about a month.

2. Two to three days later he enters the same horse in another race.

Even to the most lame brained trainer out there, this can really only mean one of two things. First, the trainer lied about the injury and is ducking the race. Second, there really is an injury, but as postulated by someone else that trainer is using this horse in the second race as a way of scaring away competition so that the other horse he's entered has a better chance of winning.

Are you still able to follow me thus far?

I will spell this out for you in the most basic way I can so that you understand how I know a trainer is lying.

If the first instance is true, the lie is obvious and self evident.
If it's the second instance, he is, while not necessarily lying, using deceit if he has no intention of running his horse. In my straightforward way of dealing with people, using deceit or being dishonest is the same thing as lying, and that cop out people like to use of "It's just business" is bullshi.t.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

In my straightforward way of dealing with people, using deceit or being dishonest is the same thing as lying, and that cop out people like to use of "It's just business" is bullshi.t.

He wanted to make up a BS story to duck the mighty Abraaj.

Isn't that obvious?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

I wasn't speaking in absolutes dude, as evidenced by my wording. This perhaps puts you into the sub-group of trainers that isn't complimented by my previous post.

As for the inane point you make about knowing exactly what is going on enough to call people liars? Let's see if your trainer mind can handle this logic.

1. The trainer of Fabulous Strike (FS) scratches out of the race at Saratoga citing an injury that will keep him from racing for at least about a month.

2. Two to three days later he enters the same horse in another race.

Even to the most lame brained trainer out there, this can really only mean one of two things. First, the trainer lied about the injury and is ducking the race. Second, there really is an injury, but as postulated by someone else that trainer is using this horse in the second race as a way of scaring away competition so that the other horse he's entered has a better chance of winning.

Are you still able to follow me thus far?

I will spell this out for you in the most basic way I can so that you understand how I know a trainer is lying.

If the first instance is true, the lie is obvious and self evident.
If it's the second instance, he is, while not necessarily lying, using deceit if he has no intention of running his horse. In my straightforward way of dealing with people, using deceit or being dishonest is the same thing as lying, and that cop out people like to use of "It's just business" is bullshi.t.

And do you know the circumstances surrounding any of the trainers comments or motives? No. In case you didnt understand we pay to enter stakes and have the discretion to scratch anytime up to 45 minutes before posttime without any reason.

Let me spell this out to you, as long as you are getting your information from the racing form and bloodhorse you are as good as in the dark about what is really going on. I'm sure the Patriots listing Brady as having a shoulder injury for 48 consecutive weeks send you into a rage also.

Did you ever consider that perhaps the initial diagnosis was incorrect?

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Blah blah blah.

Blah blah blah.

Did you ever consider that perhaps the initial diagnosis was incorrect?

Do you mean the one in which I implied that trainers are stupid?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Do you mean the one in which I implied that trainers are stupid?

You bet hard earned money (It isnt easy standing in that unemployement line) on drugged up horses trained by dishonest trainers and ridden by no brain jockeys and we are the stupid ones?

[exquisitequine]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You bet hard earned money (It isnt easy standing in that unemployement line) on drugged up horses trained by dishonest trainers and ridden by no brain jockeys and we are the stupid ones?

ouch.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by exquisitequine

ouch.

He asked for it...

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You bet hard earned money (It isnt easy standing in that unemployement line) on drugged up horses trained by dishonest trainers and ridden by no brain jockeys and we are the stupid ones?

I believe this is known as the "Mullins defense"

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by philcski

I believe this is known as the "Mullins defense"

There is a hint of truth to it if you actually believe this is the case. I read in the paper that Iran is giving up their nuclear program too...

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is a hint of truth to it if you actually believe this is the case. I read in the paper that Iran is giving up their nuclear program too...

No doubt... even if everything was clean in this game, I still question myself as a player sometimes for trying to beat a game with an absurdly high takeout.

[kgar311]

07-25-2008, 03:52 PM
kgar311
Golden Gate Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Saratoga(originally) now fl
Posts: 370




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Today is my play the longshots that dont hit the board day. Going with So Glitzy for the giant killer. Like the turf to dirt angle here and seems fit, I know it was a turf race but they did come home pretty good and she did cut into that lead. Broke her maiden on a "good" track.


Wait I found someone that gave out a horse on here. I think this one paid $38

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You bet hard earned money (It isnt easy standing in that unemployement line) on drugged up horses trained by dishonest trainers and ridden by no brain jockeys and we are the stupid ones?

LOL.

Chuck, seriously, I think your comments are coming from a completely different place and mindset; thus, you'll be speaking different languages from the get go straight through.

Eric

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You bet hard earned money (It isnt easy standing in that unemployement line) on drugged up horses trained by dishonest trainers and ridden by no brain jockeys and we are the stupid ones?

Give it up dude. I haven't made a bet since the 2006 Breeders Cup and before that it was the previous Breeders Cup.

So, in answer to your question, that's a most emphatic yes. Especially in your case.

Seriously though, there are plenty of trainers that are not stupid. Clearly listening to a TP, RF or SA speaking into a microphone one can tell that they are bright and articulate. It's their dishonesty that bothers me.

Of course, there are also plenty of trainers that are both dishonest and stupid! Mullins for instance. Or possibly Byrne (based on that infamous Keeneland meet he had).

[Indian Charlie]

By the way Chucky, for the record, I don't think you are stupid.

I think you are full of yourself and overvalue your own opinion.

The attitude that people who work in the industry have a better and smarter opinion than those that don't is old and tiring.


Oh yeah, and nice hat!!!

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

By the way Chucky, for the record, I don't think you are stupid.

I think you are full of yourself and overvalue your own opinion.

The attitude that people who work in the industry have a better and smarter opinion than those that don't is old and tiring.


Oh yeah, and nice hat!!!

Amen. Not speaking of Chuck here but overall, I think this is totally true. This is not to say that the majority of the time, the people who work in the industry don't actually have more insight. It would be silly to suggest that they don't. But their positions don't make it as automatic that they are smarter or more knowledgeable about every situation than us everyday people.

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

The attitude that people who work in the industry have a better and smarter opinion than those that don't is old and tiring.

it may be old and tiring, but in general its true. take any occupation, on average people working in the industry with first hand experience will tend to be better informed and more able to make a reasonable judgement. its clearly the case in this example.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

By the way Chucky, for the record, I don't think you are stupid.

I think you are full of yourself and overvalue your own opinion.

The attitude that people who work in the industry have a better and smarter opinion than those that don't is old and tiring.


Oh yeah, and nice hat!!!

I am relieved that I didnt make the stupid list. I overvalue my own opinion is an interesting comment. I didnt know it was possible to overvalue ones own opinion. Maybe just those that are full of themselves?

I only pointed out that you are getting your info from the racing media which is not an infallible source and is easily manipulated. My opinion may not be better or smarter than someone who doesnt work in the industry but it surely is far more informed. I try to express the reality of the business and in some ways offer a glimpse inside. You want to call trainers liars and dishonest and my attitude is tiring?

At least admit you have some kind of agenda, especially if you dont bet...

[philcski]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Give it up dude. I haven't made a bet since the 2006 Breeders Cup and before that it was the previous Breeders Cup.

So, in answer to your question, that's a most emphatic yes. Especially in your case.

Seriously though, there are plenty of trainers that are not stupid. Clearly listening to a TP, RF or SA speaking into a microphone one can tell that they are bright and articulate. It's their dishonesty that bothers me.

Of course, there are also plenty of trainers that are both dishonest and stupid! Mullins for instance. Or possibly Byrne (based on that infamous Keeneland meet he had).

Keep in mind you're talking to someone who (a) is extremely bright and articulate, and (b) competes directly with said individuals who cheat and/or are dishonest (and I don't think I'm being naive in saying Chuck does NOT cheat, given the amount of time I've spent at the barn. ) It's in his best business interest to have those guys cleaned up and out.