If you trained Lava Man.....

[CSC]

+1 Retirement is well deserved.

[GenuineRisk]

I think legacies are for the owners, not the horses. If the horse still wants to run, they should keep running him, even if it means going to lower levels where he can compete. They owe him the best possible life they can offer, and if for him, it still includes running, then let him do it. If he makes it clear he doesn't want to run anymore, then they should retire him. And then, I would hope, look for something else for him to do. I thought Barclay Tagg was right on the money when he said he made Funny Cide a track pony because he said didn't want him spending his day standing in a field, bored out of his noggin. These horses are not elderly- they're still in the prime of their lives and need something to do. Retiring because he can't compete at Grade 1s anymore is for a human's ego, not a horse's emotional health.

I work at a zoo and see how much time and money and effort goes into trying to keep the animals there mentally active, because boredom is incredibly stressful. Retirement to a nice quiet place to live sounds great, but for animals it can mean a whole lot of long days with nothing to fill them.

[geeker2]

Interesting perspective GR...very good post

[miraja2]

Ask KRIM to watch the videos of his recent races and tell me how sound he is.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I think legacies are for the owners, not the horses. If the horse still wants to run, they should keep running him, even if it means going to lower levels where he can compete. They owe him the best possible life they can offer, and if for him, it still includes running, then let him do it. If he makes it clear he doesn't want to run anymore, then they should retire him. And then, I would hope, look for something else for him to do. I thought Barclay Tagg was right on the money when he said he made Funny Cide a track pony because he said didn't want him spending his day standing in a field, bored out of his noggin. These horses are not elderly- they're still in the prime of their lives and need something to do. Retiring because he can't compete at Grade 1s anymore is for a human's ego, not a horse's emotional health.

I work at a zoo and see how much time and money and effort goes into trying to keep the animals there mentally active, because boredom is incredibly stressful. Retirement to a nice quiet place to live sounds great, but for animals it can mean a whole lot of long days with nothing to fill them.

I agree with you partly GR, if the horse is still willing...Yes, however I don't think a horse of Lava Man's stature should be running at Mountaineer against 5k claimers just because he wants to run. That would be sort of like when Ali fought against Holmes and being beat to a pulp when he was clearly over the hill. It wasn't too pleasant to watch. I do understand your post from a humane point of view. It is a nice thought but like all of us with age we start to lose our faculties.

[FGFan]

Originally Posted by CSC

I agree with you partly GR, if the horse is still willing...Yes, however I don't think a horse of Lava Man's stature should be running at Mountaineer against 5k claimers just because he wants to run. That would be sort of like when Ali fought against Holmes and being beat to a pulp when he was clearly over the hill. It wasn't too pleasant to watch. I do understand your post from a humane point of view. It is a nice thought but like all of us with age we start to lose our faculties.

I agree with GR, particularly as to the humans egos and what they want to do, it's really about what he wants to do.
Even though he lost yesterday, he still is game to run.
As to 5k at Mountaineer I don't think that would happen.
There are certainly viable, competitve races in CA that he could run in, even if it's a 100k optional claiming, just don't put him in for the tag, even just some stake races doesn't have to be graded.
Still competitive, he would remain in training, be at the track and be happy.
I for one would like to see him keep running, the Kentucky horse park can come later in his life.

[geeker2]

Originally Posted by FGFan

I agree with GR, particularly as to the humans egos and what they want to do, it's really about what he wants to do.
Even though he lost yesterday, he still is game to run.
As to 5k at Mountaineer I don't think that would happen.
There are certainly viable, competitve races in CA that he could run in, even if it's a 100k optional claiming, just don't put him in for the tag, even just some stake races doesn't have to be graded.
Still competitive, he would remain in training, be at the track and be happy.
I for one would like to see him keep running, the Kentucky horse park can come later in his life.

I agree with FG who agrees with KG who agrees with GR if think..unless KG does think LM belongs in KFC...

[FGFan]

Originally Posted by geeker2

I agree with FG who agrees with KG who agrees with GR if think..unless KG does think LM belongs in KFC...

But I did miss where KG said he belongs in JIB, but MMSC said she'd smack KG for that one!!!
But I agree with G2 and GR and, and, and ........

[CSC]

Originally Posted by FGFan

I agree with GR, particularly as to the humans egos and what they want to do, it's really about what he wants to do.
Even though he lost yesterday, he still is game to run.
As to 5k at Mountaineer I don't think that would happen.
There are certainly viable, competitve races in CA that he could run in, even if it's a 100k optional claiming, just don't put him in for the tag, even just some stake races doesn't have to be graded.
Still competitive, he would remain in training, be at the track and be happy.
I for one would like to see him keep running, the Kentucky horse park can come later in his life.

There aren't as many choices for geldings as there are for colts and fillies. If there is a horse heaven, the geldings got stiffed.

[ninetoone]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I think legacies are for the owners, not the horses. If the horse still wants to run, they should keep running him, even if it means going to lower levels where he can compete. They owe him the best possible life they can offer, and if for him, it still includes running, then let him do it. If he makes it clear he doesn't want to run anymore, then they should retire him. And then, I would hope, look for something else for him to do. I thought Barclay Tagg was right on the money when he said he made Funny Cide a track pony because he said didn't want him spending his day standing in a field, bored out of his noggin. These horses are not elderly- they're still in the prime of their lives and need something to do. Retiring because he can't compete at Grade 1s anymore is for a human's ego, not a horse's emotional health.

I work at a zoo and see how much time and money and effort goes into trying to keep the animals there mentally active, because boredom is incredibly stressful. Retirement to a nice quiet place to live sounds great, but for animals it can mean a whole lot of long days with nothing to fill them.

I agree...send Brett Favre to the practice squad.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I think legacies are for the owners, not the horses. If the horse still wants to run, they should keep running him, even if it means going to lower levels where he can compete. They owe him the best possible life they can offer, and if for him, it still includes running, then let him do it. If he makes it clear he doesn't want to run anymore, then they should retire him. And then, I would hope, look for something else for him to do. I thought Barclay Tagg was right on the money when he said he made Funny Cide a track pony because he said didn't want him spending his day standing in a field, bored out of his noggin. These horses are not elderly- they're still in the prime of their lives and need something to do. Retiring because he can't compete at Grade 1s anymore is for a human's ego, not a horse's emotional health.

I work at a zoo and see how much time and money and effort goes into trying to keep the animals there mentally active, because boredom is incredibly stressful. Retirement to a nice quiet place to live sounds great, but for animals it can mean a whole lot of long days with nothing to fill them.

Excellent post.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Excellent post.

yeah, but did you say earlier in the thread that you thought he should be served as meat at a fast food restaurant?

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

yeah, but did you say earlier in the thread that you thought he should be served as meat at a fast food restaurant?

That was a joke. Kind of. If the owners can't see the obvious and that he no longer is a grade one level horse, then yes, retiring him would be better than continuing to send him out there with no chance to win. If they can open their eyes and see there are other levels and tracks that he can be competitive and earn decent money, then they absolutely should keep him running.

Besides, I'd hate to be eating Lava Man. Can you imagine how drugged up that horse has been?

[my miss storm cat]

http://www.drf.com/news/article/96553.html


Lava Man's career likely over
By STEVE ANDERSEN
DEL MAR, Calif. - Lava Man, the $50,000 claimer who went on to win seven Grade 1 races and earn more than $5 million, has probably run his last race.

Monday, a day after Lava Man finished last of six in the Grade 1 Eddie Read Handicap at Del Mar, owners Steve Kenly and Jason Wood and trainer Doug O’Neill had several conversations regarding the future of the 7-year-old gelding. Most centered around ending Lava Man’s racing career, although Kenly stopped short of actually saying it.

"The R word is a tough thing to say," Kenly said. He said it was "pretty slim" that Lava Man would start again.

O’Neill, who has trained Lava Man since he was claimed for $50,000 on Aug. 13, 2004, was advising Wood and Kenly to end the gelding’s career.

"We’re definitely kicking him out and retirement is the right word," he said. "The thing that makes it tough is that he looks so well. I think it's time to hang up the glue-on shoes."

Kenly was at O’Neill stable at Del Mar, and spoke frequently on Monday with Wood, who lives in nearby Orange County. Kenly co-owns Lava Man with his father and sister, Dave and Tracy.

Lava Man has lost his last six career races. In Sunday’s Eddie Read, he stalked pacesetter Storm Military to the eighth pole and faded to finish 2 1/2 lengths behind the winner, Monzante. Lava Man has lost three races this year, including the Grade 1 Charles Whittingham Handicap at Hollywood Park on June 7, where he finished third, by a neck.

His most recent win came in the Grade 1 Hollywood Gold Cup in June 2007, his third consecutive win in that race. The victory gave Lava Man a record-equaling third Gold Cup win, joining Native Diver (1965-67) as the only horse to reach that milestone. Lava Man’s other Grade 1 wins were consecutive runnings of the Santa Anita Handicap in 2006-07, the 2006 Pacific Classic, and the 2006 Whittingham.

A California-bred, Lava Man earned $5,268,706 in his 46-race career, which included 17 wins. He earned $5,170,103 after he was claimed.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by King Glorious

That was a joke. Kind of. If the owners can't see the obvious and that he no longer is a grade one level horse, then yes, retiring him would be better than continuing to send him out there with no chance to win. If they can open their eyes and see there are other levels and tracks that he can be competitive and earn decent money, then they absolutely should keep him running.

Besides, I'd hate to be eating Lava Man. Can you imagine how drugged up that horse has been?

The problem is that he doesnt like to ship and the times that they have tried that route have proven to be disastrous.

[King Glorious]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

The problem is that he doesnt like to ship and the times that they have tried that route have proven to be disastrous.

Well it seems to be a moot point now but I think there's a difference between shipping to Dubai or Japan or to the BC Classic than there is in shipping to Northern California for the Berkeley Hcp.

[migreen]

Originally Posted by GenuineRisk

I think legacies are for the owners, not the horses. If the horse still wants to run, they should keep running him, even if it means going to lower levels where he can compete. They owe him the best possible life they can offer, and if for him, it still includes running, then let him do it. If he makes it clear he doesn't want to run anymore, then they should retire him. And then, I would hope, look for something else for him to do. I thought Barclay Tagg was right on the money when he said he made Funny Cide a track pony because he said didn't want him spending his day standing in a field, bored out of his noggin. These horses are not elderly- they're still in the prime of their lives and need something to do. Retiring because he can't compete at Grade 1s anymore is for a human's ego, not a horse's emotional health.

I work at a zoo and see how much time and money and effort goes into trying to keep the animals there mentally active, because boredom is incredibly stressful. Retirement to a nice quiet place to live sounds great, but for animals it can mean a whole lot of long days with nothing to fill them.

Excellent post.

Lets not forget that there are many careers for a Tbred outside racing . . some involve other forms of competition, and some do not. There are many ways for a loved horse to be useful. It takes some doing to retrain an off-the-track horse, but having said that, its done every day. Remember, 7 is old for a racehorse, but young in every other equine discipline. Even a 10 YO like Evening Attire is just approaching middle age in most equine pursuits.

So . . Lava Man, and horses like him, can retire from the track, and do a lot more than graze all day.

[Pedigree Ann]

Originally Posted by migreen

Excellent post.

Lets not forget that there are many careers for a Tbred outside racing . . some involve other forms of competition, and some do not. There are many ways for a loved horse to be useful. It takes some doing to retrain an off-the-track horse, but having said that, its done every day. Remember, 7 is old for a racehorse, but young in every other equine discipline. Even a 10 YO like Evening Attire is just approaching middle age in most equine pursuits.

So . . Lava Man, and horses like him, can retire from the track, and do a lot more than graze all day.

Red Rum won his third Grand National at 12. And was nearly there for the race at 13, but bowed out at the last minute. In 'chasing, 7 is just the beginning of a horse's career. THe same in eventing. In most breeds, the horse isn't fully mature until 7, although since TBs are bred to mature early, they probably make it by 5, which is why they are still fillies and colts until that age. Like a Larry Bird, a horse can be amazing in high school, spectacualar in college, but becomes great with maturity and experience.