Catty Madeline

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I could argue that this decision, standing alone, was fair.

Viewed in the context of the DQs of Proud Spell and Admiral Bird in the last week, this decision was laughable. I'm not sure that Spa Princess had the opportunity to prove that she was the third best horse in the race (as the bumping certainly could have cost her the length she was beaten for third), and the difference for the owners between third and fourth is $2,300.

Does this mean the horse is going to be denied the good hay? Sorry Thebby I couldn't help myself

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Does this mean the horse is going to be denied the good hay? Sorry Thebby I couldn't help myself

No, a part-owner of the horse was talking to a friend of mine before the race, and they intend to point her to the NYS Stallion Series race at Saratoga for her next start. With $150K on the line, I'm sure Spa Princess will still get "the good hay" (whatever that is in Ubillo's barn) for the next few weeks.

[sumitas]

Eventually one of the Desert Warrior's will get his first black type. Could be her.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

No, a part-owner of the horse was talking to a friend of mine before the race, and they intend to point her to the NYS Stallion Series race at Saratoga for her next start. With $150K on the line, I'm sure Spa Princess will still get "the good hay" (whatever that is in Ubillo's barn) for the next few weeks.

Is that nice?

Rodrigo is a friend of mine. I assume you know him.

By the way, I don't see how you can compare this to the Admiral Bird DQ, where there was a blanket finish, and this seemed like a good no-call.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

By the way, I don't see how you can compare this to the Admiral Bird DQ, where there was a blanket finish, and this seemed like a good no-call.

As I said in an earlier post, viewed as an isolated incident, I don't have that much of a problem with yesterday's no-call.

My problem is that when the Proud Spell DQ (alleged foul had no impact on the likely outcome of the race), the Admiral Bird DQ (borderline foul may have had an impact on Doc N Roll's chance to finish third), and yesterday's no-call (where bumping may have had an impact on Spa Princess's chance to finish third) are all viewed together, yesterday's decision makes no sense.

I fail to see how the fact that there was a blanket finish in the Admiral Bird race - and this one did not have a close finish - has any relevance if the standard being applied is whether the "fouled" horse had a fair opportunity to achieve a maximum placing - as the contact likely impacted Spa Princess's ability to finish third (for which she was beaten about one length). For that matter, there was no blanket finish in the Mother Goose, while there was a photo in the Les Antiques race in which repeated contact caused by the winner was ingored.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

As I said in an earlier post, viewed as an isolated incident, I don't have that much of a problem with yesterday's no-call.

My problem is that when the Proud Spell DQ (alleged foul had no impact on the likely outcome of the race), the Admiral Bird DQ (borderline foul may have had an impact on Doc N Roll's chance to finish third), and yesterday's no-call (where bumping may have had an impact on Spa Princess's chance to finish third) are all viewed together, yesterday's decision makes no sense.

I fail to see how the fact that there was a blanket finish in the Admiral Bird race - and this one did not have a close finish - has any relevance if the standard being applied is whether the "fouled" horse had a fair opportunity to achieve a maximum placing - as the contact likely impacted Spa Princess's ability to finish third (for which she was beaten about one length). For that matter, there was no blanket finish in the Mother Goose, while there was a photo in the Les Antiques race in which repeated contact caused by the winner was ingored.

well said and i totally agree.

[blackthroatedwind]

The blanket finish is relevent in that a bumping incident could well have caused the victim to have lost a position. I can understand the argument against yesterday's no-call, even though I agree with the steward's decision in this case, but not the one Friday. I think taking Les Antiques down would have been a VERY bad call and really think they got that one right. The Mother Goose? Debatable for sure.

Honestly, and I am not trying to demean your arguments, I guess overall I just care less than most people. That doesn't make me right, or my position the right one, I just think people tend to overemphasize steward's decisions of all kinds while ignoring far more relevent and important issues. I don't think you do this....but most do.

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

I think taking Les Antiques down would have been a VERY bad call and really think they got that one right. The Mother Goose? Debatable for sure.

You then condone a horse going from the 5 or 6 path and SQUEEZING a horse that's on the rail? So much so, that the horse repeatedly HITS the rail as a result. That race was a joke. Castellano is repeatedly allowed to get away with **** like this.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

The blanket finish is relevent in that a bumping incident could well have caused the victim to have lost a position. I can understand the argument against yesterday's no-call, even though I agree with the steward's decision in this case, but not the one Friday. I think taking Les Antiques down would have been a VERY bad call and really think they got that one right. The Mother Goose? Debatable for sure.

Honestly, and I am not trying to demean your arguments, I guess overall I just care less than most people. That doesn't make me right, or my position the right one, I just think people tend to overemphasize steward's decisions of all kinds while ignoring far more relevent and important issues. I don't think you do this....but most do.

As a practical matter, there are periods when focus comes to certain aspects of the sport. Over the years, I have viewed the stewards in NY as making more appropriate decisions than their counterparts elsewhere (particularly in FL and KY, where I have seen what I thought to be phantom fouls result in takedowns). That's why the events of the past 10 days have been so baffling.

As a horseplayer, I think that, like anything, the "good calls" and "bad calls" tend to even out. I got taken down from the pic-6 with Admiral Bird on Friday, but was the beneficiary for a fairly comparable amount of money when Raw Silk was (wrongly, IMO) DQ'd at Aqueduct last fall. The problem is that, at a time when racing has enough problems to worry about, we really need consistent adjudication of these matters, for inconsistency breeds questions of integrity and the like (which I am not raising).

You may know the answer to this question which a friend and me were discussing yesterday. With the holiday period, and the high-pressure Saratoga meet around the corner, were any of the "regular" stewards on vacation, with alternate stewards sitting in for them this past week? I recall that, when DRF used to publish the charts in the Form on a daily basis, the identity of the stewards was published as part of an introductory section before the chart for the first race, along with such information as weather, how long the meet ran, etc. This information is not currently part of any charts of which I am aware. At least if this was published, it might create better accountability, or at least a perception of it. (It's like the equivalent in basketball, which I officiate, where some referees call a "tighter" whistle than others - and the players and coaches know it. Human nature being what it is, I assume the stewards, as a collection of persons, are probably the same.)

[blackthroatedwind]

Nobody ever said anything about any of the regular stewards being on vacation but I guess it's possible.

[freddymo]

Everybody wants decisions to be uniformed but the problem lies in its context.. This thread is composed of 5 or 6 well informed knowledgible racing minds accurately and cogently making sensible cases for DQ's and Non calls.. All of you folks have seen ten of thousands of races and are well versed yet .. The Fat Man BTW DrugS and thebby etc all differ in there adjudication.. Think about it we have been discussing this for days and with unlimited replay time.. These folks need to make a decision and move on in 5 minutes TOPS.. My point is simple no matter how hard you try to get stewards to be accountable and prefect they just cant because so much of these decisions are subjective.. I guess sometimes it will work out for you and sometimes you are going to get hurt eitherway as long as the folks doing the deciding are competitent I guess you have to let it go when it works against you and cheer when it works in your favor..

Unless The Fat Man is available to judge every objection and inquiry??lol

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

the Admiral Bird DQ (borderline foul may have had an impact on Doc N Roll's chance to finish third), and yesterday's no-call (where bumping may have had an impact on Spa Princ

Doc N Roll was definitely finishing 2nd if he's not impeded.