Grasshopper ? ? ?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i thought he had a good year, there was the big 3 last year, and then him...
second in the travers, second in the super derby... decent year, lots of this years 3 yr olds owners/trainers would be happy with that,
and what does your response have to do with my question, its a horse racing site, and i would much rather talk about the actual horses then some of the other things that get attention !

Your question supposes that Grasshopper was some kind of beast last year and mysteriously soured over the winter between his 3 and 4 year old seasons. I dont see that as the case thats all.

I saw him as a very average horse last year that made his rep finishing second to a less than cranked Street Sense in front of a bunch of proven nags. He then finished second at 3/10 to a horse named Going Ballistic that I have no idea who he was or who he is. outside of that???????????????? He is still eligible for nx2.

So what is so different this year? He didnt win a stake then and didnt win one this year either. Where is the form reversal?

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Your question supposes that Grasshopper was some kind of beast last year and mysteriously soured over the winter between his 3 and 4 year old seasons. I dont see that as the case thats all.

I saw him as a very average horse last year that made his rep finishing second to a less than cranked Street Sense in front of a bunch of proven nags. He then finished second at 3/10 to a horse named Going Ballistic that I have no idea who he was or who he is. outside of that???????????????? He is still eligible for nx2.

So what is so different this year? He didnt win a stake then and didnt win one this year either. Where is the form reversal?

i guess we look at it different. i will say this, less then cranked street sense ? your totally wrong there, he was fully cranked that day, FULLY CRANKED, maybe he was less in the jim dandy, or the race before the breeders cup classic, but to say he was not cranked travers day is crazy

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i guess we look at it different. i will say this, less then cranked street sense ? your totally wrong there, he was fully cranked that day, FULLY CRANKED, maybe he was less in the jim dandy, or the race before the breeders cup classic, but to say he was not cranked travers day is crazy

Yes, nafzger had him fully cranked to face...Hunting, cp west and the indomitable grasshopper. Im crazy i guess.

But lets forget the fact that for every other big race that Street Sense raced in fully cranked, he prepped on poly.

Im crazy.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Yes, nafzger had him fully cranked to face...Hunting, cp west and the indomitable grasshopper. Im crazy i guess.

But lets forget the fact that for every other big race that Street Sense raced in fully cranked, he prepped on poly.

Im crazy.

ANYONE WOULD BE CRAZY TO SAY A HORSE WAS NOT CRANKED FOR THE TRAVERS, THE TRAVERS IS THE MAIN SUMMER GOAL FOR ANY GOOD HORSE, AND TO SAY HE WAS NOT CRANKED IS WRONG, AND IM SURE OTHER PPL WILL AGREE WITH ME ON THIS ONE.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

ANYONE WOULD BE CRAZY TO SAY A HORSE WAS NOT CRANKED FOR THE TRAVERS, THE TRAVERS IS THE MAIN SUMMER GOAL FOR ANY GOOD HORSE, AND TO SAY HE WAS NOT CRANKED IS WRONG, AND IM SURE OTHER PPL WILL AGREE WITH ME ON THIS ONE.

Really? LOL. how old are you? Main summer goal for ANY good horse? And i guess that is why Street Sense was the first derby/travers winner since????

Okay, you are right. Nafzger made sure Street Sense was ready to lay down his life to beat CP West, hunting and grasshopper. You win.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Really? LOL. how old are you? Main summer goal for ANY good horse? And i guess that is why Street Sense was the first derby/travers winner since????

Okay, you are right. Nafzger made sure Street Sense was ready to lay down his life to beat CP West, hunting and grasshopper. You win.

hunting did not run in the travers, he could not have, and most good 3 yr olds do point to the travers, what else is there ?

[jcs11204]

i could be wrong, but hunting is something like a 6yr old gelding

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

hunting did not run in the travers, he could not have, and most good 3 yr olds do point to the travers, what else is there ?

Sightseeing (mistook one nag for another).

The Travers isnt what it use to be. Really, how many top three year olds have run in the thing in recent years? Smarty jones? No. Funny cide? No. Empire Maker? No. Afleet Alex? No. Fusaichi Pegasus? No. Bernardini, Point Given and Street sense were the only ones and the fields were walkovers.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

ANYONE WOULD BE CRAZY TO SAY A HORSE WAS NOT CRANKED FOR THE TRAVERS, THE TRAVERS IS THE MAIN SUMMER GOAL FOR ANY GOOD HORSE, AND TO SAY HE WAS NOT CRANKED IS WRONG, AND IM SURE OTHER PPL WILL AGREE WITH ME ON THIS ONE.

oh, you've sold me now since you used all caps, that definitely strengthens ANY arguement.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Yes, nafzger had him fully cranked to face...Hunting, cp west and the indomitable grasshopper. Im crazy i guess.

But lets forget the fact that for every other big race that Street Sense raced in fully cranked, he prepped on poly.

Im crazy.

I think you are wrong here, and jcs is right.
This whole business about being "fully cranked" is a usually a bunch of nonsense in my opinion, but to the extent that a trainer can try to have a horse peak on a particular day, I find it nearly impossible to believe that the connections would not want a horse to be at a peak for the Travers.
The connections wouldn't know for sure what the field would be for a race until just days before the race. Do you really think that any trainer would not try to have a horse at his best for the Travers, simply because he guesses weeks in advance that it might not be a great field? That seems unlikely.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by miraja2

I think you are wrong here, and jcs is right.
This whole business about being "fully cranked" is a usually a bunch of nonsense in my opinion, but to the extent that a trainer can try to have a horse peak on a particular day, I find it nearly impossible to believe that the connections would not want a horse to be at a peak for the Travers.
The connections wouldn't know for sure what the field would be for a race until just days before the race. Do you really think that any trainer would not try to have a horse at his best for the Travers, simply because he guesses weeks in advance that it might not be a great field? That seems unlikely.

This isnt 1968 its 2008. The travers isnt that big of a deal anymore. Still, its a nice race to win but with stake races in the fall, the BC is the ultimate goal.

Nafzger looked at the nominations list weeks in advance and he pretty much knew weeks in advance who wasnt coming meaning Hard Spun and Curlin. That being the case, who did he have to worry about? And if he didnt have anything to worry about, why crank him to his very best when his very best wasnt necessary???????????

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

This isnt 1968 its 2008. The travers isnt that big of a deal anymore. Still, its a nice race to win but with stake races in the fall, the BC is the ultimate goal.

Nafzger looked at the nominations list weeks in advance and he pretty much knew weeks in advance who wasnt coming meaning Hard Spun and Curlin. That being the case, who did he have to worry about? And if he didnt have anything to worry about, why crank him to his very best when his very best wasnt necessary???????????

Again, I think you might be overestimating exactly how much control a trainer has over when he or she can magically call on a horse's peak performance, but for the sake of argument, let's assume for the moment that you are right and they really can do that. Are you really telling me that you think Nafzer wanted Street Sense to be less than his best in the Travers? No way.

And if by some miracle you actually are right about that, I guess the Breeders' Cup is killing the sport more than even Breeders' Cup haters like me thought it was.

[dalakhani]

[quote=miraja2]Again, I think you might be overestimating exactly how much control a trainer has over when he or she can magically call on a horse's peak performance, but for the sake of argument, let's assume for the moment that you are right and they really can do that. Are you really telling me that you think Nafzer wanted Street Sense to be less than his best in the Travers? No way.

And if by some miracle you actually are right about that, I guess the Breeders' Cup is killing the sport more than even Breeders' Cup haters like me thought it was.[/QUOTE]

It is killing the sport, no doubt about it and I share in your hate of it.


Nafzger is a master horseman and having a horse peak at just the right time is what he is payed to do. And he has proven time and again that that is the way he handles his horses. Is it full proof? No, of course not. But if you dont think the type of regiment the trainer employs will have an effect on the type of performance he wants out of the horse, well, we will just have to disagree.

As for the Travers thing, again, horse racing has changed dramatically even in the last couple of years. These arent deep fields and the horses only have so many races that they can run. You dont prepare for the "travers" like you do for the "derby" or the "bcc". The travers last year was no better than a grade 3 in traditional fields and Nafzger knew it long before the race. Again, why would he crank him up for mediocre competition regardless of the name of the race????????????????

[Bobby Fischer]

Street Sense was simply not that dominant of a horse that he would crush a decent allowance horse without momentum or a stamina edge. In the Travers he had neither and had to win by a slim talent edge. In the derby SS had a perfect ride and perfect pace and was facing mostly 8.5 furlong race horses.