Bernardini ?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I think Bernardini was freaking awesome. Some disagree, and that's fine. But I find it hilarious that people point to his loss to Invasor as some rightful indictment of the horse. The two of them both ran great races that day, and when watching the debacle that most likely will be this year's Classic, I'll be bummed that we don't have a horse like Bernardini in the race.

true. No question to his talent. Its just interesting that the only time that he was tested, he folded.

The best of the horses we didnt see enough of? Hah! Ever see Candy Ride? Mizzen Mast? Lamtarra? I could go on all night about horses that fit that criteria that would have smoked bernardini.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

true. No question to his talent. Its just interesting that the only time that he was tested, he folded.

The best of the horses we didnt see enough of? Hah! Ever see Candy Ride? Mizzen Mast? Lamtarra? I could go on all night about horses that fit that criteria that would have smoked bernardini.

he folded ? ? holy ****, its like ppl did not see the same race... this horse won everything in hand for fun, never ever asked to run... HE WAS NOT HIMSELF IN THE CLASSIC AND STILL RAN A DEAD GAME SECOND, FOLDED, WHAT RACE DID YOU WATCH ?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

he folded ? ? holy ****, its like ppl did not see the same race... this horse won everything in hand for fun, never ever asked to run... HE WAS NOT HIMSELF IN THE CLASSIC AND STILL RAN A DEAD GAME SECOND, FOLDED, WHAT RACE DID YOU WATCH ?

folded, lost...whatever. It was his only test against a real horse and he lost. How about that?

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

folded, lost...whatever. It was his only test against a real horse and he lost. How about that?

folded and lost are to totally different things...

commentator folds sometimes
first defense folded in the met...

huge difference from a game loss

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

folded, lost...whatever. It was his only test against a real horse and he lost. How about that?

Come on, now, you know that the Jockey Club Gold Cup he won was really an unbelievable group. Wanderin Boy- a one-dimensional Grade II/III type, Andromeda's Hero- argh, and a turf horse in Dylan Thomas.

I completely agree that if you want to talk about a talented horse who we didn't see enough of then Candy Ride absolutely comes to mind.

NT

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

Come on, now, you know that the Jockey Club Gold Cup he won was really an unbelievable group. Wanderin Boy- a one-dimensional Grade II/III type, Andromeda's Hero- argh, and a turf horse in Dylan Thomas.

I completely agree that if you want to talk about a talented horse who we didn't see enough of then Candy Ride absolutely comes to mind.

NT

i will agree with candy ride, but not the other 2 he named

[odbaxter]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i will agree with candy ride, but not the other 2 he named

I'm kinda partial to Mineshaft.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by odbaxter

I'm kinda partial to Mineshaft.

mineshaft... yes

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i will agree with candy ride, but not the other 2 he named

Did you ever see Lamtarra? Have you ever even heard of Lamtarra?

If you agree with Candy Ride i dont know how you could doubt that one.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Did you ever see Lamtarra? Have you ever even heard of Lamtarra?

If you agree with Candy Ride i dont know how you could doubt that one.

PG,
Lammtarra was the Eurohorse of the year in 1995. 1995 happened to be one of the weakest european seasons on record. In fact saying that bernardini couldnt beat lammatarra is like saying the Boston Celtics couldnt beat the Dallas Cowboys.

PG, tell em that Bernardini will be a much better sire than Lammtarra...lets see them poke fun at you for that!

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

true. No question to his talent. Its just interesting that the only time that he was tested, he folded.

The best of the horses we didnt see enough of? Hah! Ever see Candy Ride? Mizzen Mast? Lamtarra? I could go on all night about horses that fit that criteria that would have smoked bernardini.

Mizzen Mast? Ouch. He did nothing of note beyond being scratched from the Big Cap and "targeting" the Met Mile, which is Frankel code for "he's done". He did beat some 17-hand horse that previously was 3rd in the Pegasus at the Meadowlands a couple of times, not to mention I Love Silver, who Point Given beat by about 10 lengths or so in the SA Derby.

He was a horrendous failure in France, though.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Mizzen Mast? Ouch. He did nothing of note beyond being scratched from the Big Cap and "targeting" the Met Mile, which is Frankel code for "he's done". He did beat some 17-hand horse that previously was 3rd in the Pegasus at the Meadowlands a couple of times, not to mention I Love Silver, who Point Given beat by about 10 lengths or so in the SA Derby.

He was a horrendous failure in France, though.

Well in between he did win the strub g2 and the malbu g1 while beating stake winner giant gentleman and multiple graded stake winner and eclipse winner orientate. But, lets forget about that.

I admit, his superiority to bernardini is dubious and is definitely according to my biased eye.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Well in between he did win the strub g2 and the malbu g1 while beating stake winner giant gentleman and multiple graded stake winner and eclipse winner orientate. But, lets forget about that.

I admit, his superiority to bernardini is dubious and is definitely according to my biased eye.

Giant Gentleman was the mediocre Pegasus horse I was talking about. And just to be clear, he beat Orientate in the 9f Strub, not the 7f Malibu--which would have actually meant something. But no need to make that distinction.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Giant Gentleman was the mediocre Pegasus horse I was talking about. And just to be clear, he beat Orientate in the 9f Strub, not the 7f Malibu--which would have actually meant something. But no need to make that distinction.

And also no need to make the distinction that Orientate was a multiple stake winner at two turns. Not the grade 1 sprint beast but still a more than capable stake horse.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

And also no need to make the distinction that Orientate was a multiple stake winner at two turns. Not the grade 1 sprint beast but still a more than capable stake horse.

Yes, the Indiana Derby at Hoosier at 8.5f and the listed Sir Beaufort at a flat mile on turf (being a son of Gone West, Orientate was more than adept on that surface).

Well played.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yes, the Indiana Derby at Hoosier at 8.5f and the listed Sir Beaufort at a flat mile on turf (being a son of Gone West, Orientate was more than adept on that surface).

Orientate was by Mt. Livermore. He was a very solid sprinter (I specifically remember his Forego at Saratoga when he thrashed Aldebaran) during his 2002 championship season. I wouldn't say he was as adept on turf. He was off the board in the only two graded races (Aegon Turf Sprint and Shoemaker Mile) that he contested over turf.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

true. No question to his talent. Its just interesting that the only time that he was tested, he folded.

The best of the horses we didnt see enough of? Hah! Ever see Candy Ride? Mizzen Mast? Lamtarra? I could go on all night about horses that fit that criteria that would have smoked bernardini.

I don't know who you're referring to with your second paragraph, because I never said he was the best of horses we didn't see enough of.

In regard to your first paragraph though, I find it funny when people say he "folded". He ran second by a length to a very good horse.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I don't know who you're referring to with your second paragraph, because I never said he was the best of horses we didn't see enough of.

In regard to your first paragraph though, I find it funny when people say he "folded". He ran second by a length to a very good horse. I shudder to think what people would've said he did had he not had a sixteenth between his ass and Premium Tap.

Invasor went past him without any resistance what so ever. The only reason it was not by more is because he started his run later.

And its not like Bernardini ran a bad race. He made a bold move on the turn and was in position to win. But a champion, a real champ, meets that challenge and at least puts up a fight. Can you really sit here and say he did that? Or was it more like he just gave it up?

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Invasor went past him without any resistance what so ever. The only reason it was not by more is because he started his run later.

And its not like Bernardini ran a bad race. He made a bold move on the turn and was in position to win. But a champion, a real champ, meets that challenge and at least puts up a fight. Can you really sit here and say he did that? Or was it more like he just gave it up?

What are you DELUSIONAL? This isn't about the best horse winning or champions finding that something XTRA, it's about SETUPS. That's the hard truth of this game. Racing is all about which horse gets the better trip. It's about flows. It's about jockeys making poor decisions and getting horses beat. To think that an individual horse can overcome a setup against it in a given race is about as naive as one could get. To even the novice tripper, BERNIE MOVED TOO SOON. Simple as that.

P.S. I could care less what the FIGURES say.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

What are you DELUSIONAL? This isn't about the best horse winning or champions finding that something XTRA, it's about SETUPS. That's the hard truth of this game. Racing is all about which horse gets the better trip. It's about flows. It's about jockeys making poor decisions and getting horses beat. To think that an individual horse can overcome a setup against it in a given race is about as naive as one could get. To even the novice tripper, BERNIE MOVED TOO SOON. Simple as that.

P.S. I could care less what the FIGURES say.

So if you don't care about figures, but you think Bernardini moved to soon, how do you decide who is the better horse, him or Invasor?

By the way, I'm a casual observer here, My selection, DAVID JUNIOR, PULLED UP TOO SOON.