W/E Beyers: Frost Giant 106; Mast Track 105

[the_fat_man]

Originally Posted by Betsy

I think I'll avoid an argument about AP Indy ..........but I guess the stumbles could have had something to do with the low figure. Regardless, she's a very good filly.

Why all the concern with the number? You just witnessed a race, albeit a race with trouble, but one in which Music Note was probably every bit AS GOOD as the (to this point in time) best (active) 3 year old filly in the country. Who beats her yesterday?

It's understandable that the number, and its massaging, is important to those making it. Let YOUR OPINION have precedence over the number. It happens to be correct here. Who cares if the number confirms it?

[hockey2315]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Why all the concern with the number? You just witnessed a race, albeit a race with trouble, but one in which Music Note was probably every bit AS GOOD as the (to this point in time) best (active) 3 year old filly in the country. Who beats her yesterday?

It's understandable that the number, and its massaging, is important to those making it. Let YOUR OPINION have precedence over the number. It happens to be correct here. Who cares if the number confirms it?

Zaftig.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Why all the concern with the number? You just witnessed a race, albeit a race with trouble, but one in which Music Note was probably every bit AS GOOD as the (to this point in time) best (active) 3 year old filly in the country. Who beats her yesterday?

It's understandable that the number, and its massaging, is important to those making it. Let YOUR OPINION have precedence over the number. It happens to be correct here. Who cares if the number confirms it?

because betsy is every bit an ap indy fan, probably a bigger fan than jcs is of giant's causeway, and thinks music note is getting dissed with a small number.... i thought music note looked good, and can't say that with a clean break and trip that proud spell would have won--can't say that i've seen anyone suggest a different finish with a different trip.

[jcs11204]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because betsy is every bit an ap indy fan, probably a bigger fan than jcs is of giant's causeway, and thinks music note is getting dissed with a small number.... i thought music note looked good, and can't say that with a clean break and trip that proud spell would have won--can't say that i've seen anyone suggest a different finish with a different trip.

i thought music note looked ok at best... and i think proud spell wins with a clean trip, music note did nothing to blow me away or make me think she's better then.... proud spell, ginger brew and a few other very good 3 yr old fillies

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because betsy is every bit an ap indy fan, probably a bigger fan than jcs is of giant's causeway, and thinks music note is getting dissed with a small number....

Here's a simple way to look at the relationship between 9f and 10f times on the dirt at Belmont Park if you want to assume that an 11.83 second difference in time translates to equal performances.

Here are some past final times of Belmont Breeders Cup Races involving well known horses at those distances.

1995: Inside Information (1:46.15) Cigar (1:59.58) Difference: 13.43 seconds

2001: Unbridled Elaine (1:49.21) Tiznow (2:00.62) Difference: 11.41 seconds

2005: Pleasant Home (1:48.34) Saint Liam (2:01.49) Difference: 13.15 seconds

Assuming that 11.83 seconds is the exact relationship in time between the two distances ... we can conclude that:

* Inside Information ran exactly 1.60 seconds faster than Cigar - meaning she ran 8 lengths faster than him in his perfect season capping win.

* Unbridled Elaine ran exactly 0.42 seconds slower than Tiznow - meaning she ran just 2 lengths slower than him.

* Pleasant Home ran exactly 1.32 seconds faster than Saint Liam - meaning she ran 6.5 lengths faster than him.

That gives you an idea that the relationship in time between the two distances is obviously not even close to 11 4/5th seconds.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Here's a simple way to look at the relationship between 9f and 10f times on the dirt at Belmont Park if you want to assume that an 11.83 second difference in time translates to equal performances.

Here are some past final times of Belmont Breeders Cup Races involving well known horses at those distances.

1995: Inside Information (1:46.15) Cigar (1:59.58) Difference: 13.43 seconds

2001: Unbridled Elaine (1:49.21) Tiznow (2:00.62) Difference: 11.41 seconds

2005: Pleasant Home (1:48.34) Saint Liam (2:01.49) Difference: 13.15 seconds

Assuming that 11.83 seconds is the exact relationship in time between the two distances ... we can conclude that:

* Inside Information ran exactly 1.60 seconds faster than Cigar - meaning she ran 8 lengths faster than him in his perfect season capping win.

* Unbridled Elaine ran exactly 0.42 seconds slower than Tiznow - meaning she ran just 2 lengths slower than him.

* Pleasant Home ran exactly 1.32 seconds faster than Saint Liam - meaning she ran 6.5 lengths faster than him.

That gives you an idea that the relationship in time between the two distances is obviously not even close to 11 4/5th seconds.

Thanks for the explanation, Indomitable. That makes a lot of sense........

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i thought music note looked ok at best... and i think proud spell wins with a clean trip, music note did nothing to blow me away or make me think she's better then.... proud spell, ginger brew and a few other very good 3 yr old fillies

What has Proud Spell, Ginger Brew, or any other "very good" 3 YO fillies done to make you think Music Note isn't just as good as them?

Proud Spell has never run a fast race. Her best efforts to date were on the slop where a number of fillies behind her had trouble and with an absolutely dream trip in a match race with a filly who wants no part of a mile and a sixteenth.

Zaftig is the only filly who has done anything really "impressive" this year. At least Music Note looks like she has potential. The figure is meaningless because of the pace in my opinion. Let's see what happens in the Alabama.

NT

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by jcs11204

i thought music note looked ok at best... and i think proud spell wins with a clean trip, music note did nothing to blow me away or make me think she's better then.... proud spell, ginger brew and a few other very good 3 yr old fillies

Even if I weren't an Indy fan, I'd have to go "huh?" at this comment. Ginger Brew is a nice filly, but hardly a worldbeater and she is not top-class in America. What other 3 year old fillies would you be ranking ahead of Music Note at this point?

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by Danzig

because betsy is every bit an ap indy fan, probably a bigger fan than jcs is of giant's causeway, and thinks music note is getting dissed with a small number.... i thought music note looked good, and can't say that with a clean break and trip that proud spell would have won--can't say that i've seen anyone suggest a different finish with a different trip.

I can't deny that, Danzig. My main problem is making too big a deal out of a # when I saw the race with my own eyes and I know that Music Note looked good. I'm always looking for the Beyer fig to somehow justify a winning performance of one of my favorites instead of just enjoying it, as if racing can be reduced merely to a number.

[Betsy]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

Why all the concern with the number? You just witnessed a race, albeit a race with trouble, but one in which Music Note was probably every bit AS GOOD as the (to this point in time) best (active) 3 year old filly in the country. Who beats her yesterday?

It's understandable that the number, and its massaging, is important to those making it. Let YOUR OPINION have precedence over the number. It happens to be correct here. Who cares if the number confirms it?

you're right - I've got to let it go. She won the race and we move on to the next one.