Asmussen: Lone Star positive

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

At least Dutrow isn't making any excuses. He says he has "no problem" with the suspension.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/95828.html

no problem? then why is he appealing if it's no problem?

[Danzig]

and isn't it ironic.....assmussen was on a six month suspension when curlin started his career, and now it looks like he'll be suspended six months while curlin finishes his career.

[Bobby Fischer]

lidocane and some baking soda touched to your tongue will make your whole tongue and face numb

the other day my doctor cut through my side , and it didn't even hurt after he shot it up with lidocane.

what the hell does a horse who theraputically needs lidocaine have any business running within that month?

Up the ante a little guys, stuff like this is bad for business

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

lidocane and some baking soda touched to your tongue will make your whole tongue and face numb

the other day my doctor cut through my side , and it didn't even hurt after he shot it up with lidocane.

what the hell does a horse who theraputically needs lidocaine have any business running within that month?

Up the ante a little guys, stuff like this is bad for business

I have no idea about the particulars of this case but lidocaine is found in over the counter creams and gels. Steve Penrod, who is the last trainer that would ever do anything illegal, got a lidocaine positive a few years ago because the groom had used an aloe vera cream that had lidocaine in it on a filly's heels.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have no idea about the particulars of this case but lidocaine is found in over the counter creams and gels. Steve Penrod, who is the last trainer that would ever do anything illegal, got a lidocaine positive a few years ago because the groom had used an aloe vera cream that had lidocaine in it on a filly's heels.

As an aside, fairly recently, didn't a girl pass away due to overdose of lidocaine because she used skin creams often ? In other words (read the label), this lidocaine positive was the result of applying lidocaine directly to the horse.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by sumitas

As an aside, fairly recently, didn't a girl pass away due to overdose of lidocaine because she used skin creams often ? In other words (read the label), this lidocaine positive was the result of applying lidocaine directly to the horse.

How do you know?

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

How do you know?

You said the lidocaine was in the aloe gel.

Here's just one link to a lidocaine overdose from topical cream.
http://www.ncsu.edu/news/dailyclips/1205/122205.htm#2

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by sumitas

You said the lidocaine was in the aloe gel.

Here's just one link to a lidocaine overdose from topical cream.
http://www.ncsu.edu/news/dailyclips/1205/122205.htm#2

I know that it has happened before. I have no idea if this is the case with this horse

[Bobby Fischer]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

... got a lidocaine positive a few years ago because the groom had used an aloe vera cream that had lidocaine in it on a filly's heels.

wow had no idea testing was that sensative!

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Bobby Fischer

what the hell does a horse who theraputically needs lidocaine have any business running within that month?

As can be construed from your entire post, lidocaine is used to facilitate minor surgical procedures and lameness diagnosis. Certainly horses are able to perform within a couple of weeks of such procedures (ie lacerations, throat surgery, etc) if given the go-ahead. The recommended withdrawal is 5 to 10 days depending on the amount used.

It would be interesting in these cases of local anesthetic positives to see whether or not the horses in question underwent any sort of treatment necessitating local anesthetic use. I'd imagine such information could be found on the daily reports private veterinarians are required to submit in most jurisdictions. Otherwise, its hard to swallow these so called "contamination" excuses.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

As can be construed from your entire post, lidocaine is used to facilitate minor surgical procedures and lameness diagnosis. Certainly horses are able to perform within a couple of weeks of such procedures (ie lacerations, throat surgery, etc) if given the go-ahead. The recommended withdrawal is 5 to 10 days depending on the amount used.

It would be interesting in these cases of local anesthetic positives to see whether or not the horses in question underwent any sort of treatment necessitating local anesthetic use. I'd imagine such information could be found on the daily reports private veterinarians are required to submit in most jurisdictions. Otherwise, its hard to swallow these so called "contamination" excuses.

What jurisdictions require this?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What jurisdictions require this?

I believe that here in California, vets have to document every treatment done to a horse. If they are going to do something illegal, they are obviously not going to abide by this rule.

But in terms of injecting ankles with substances that are legal including cortisone, this is all supposed to be documented. So when a horse breaks down, they could actually check to see how many times the horse has been injected.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I believe that here in California, vets have to document every treatment done to a horse. If they are going to do something illegal, they are obviously not going to abide by this rule.

But in terms of injecting ankles with substances that are legal including cortisone, this is all supposed to be documented. So when a horse breaks down, they could actually check to see how many times the horse has been injected.

Do they have to turn the records over to the racing commission?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Do they have to turn the records over to the racing commission?

I don't know if it's the racing commision or the racing office. I wasn't even aware of this until just recently. With everything that has been going on lately, I was telling one of my trainers that I thought that the track should have a record of anything that a vet does to a horse on the backstretch. He told me that they do have these records. I was totally surprised.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

What jurisdictions require this?

California, Kentucky, Delaware, and Florida, for instance. New York and New Jersey don't require daily reports, but do require vets to submit reports of any joint injections performed. I assume all jurisdictions require veterinarians to maintain medical records in general and some if not most retain the right to have those records submitted in certain instances, namely, when investigating positive post-race tests.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

California, Kentucky, Delaware, and Florida, for instance. New York and New Jersey don't require daily reports, but do require vets to submit reports of any joint injections performed. I assume all jurisdictions require veterinarians to maintain medical records in general and some if not most retain the right to have those records submitted in certain instances, namely, when investigating positive post-race tests.

I have never heard that they collected daily reports in KY or FL. i dont race much in the other states.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I have never heard that they collected daily reports in KY or FL. i dont race much in the other states.

I don't know how much enforcing of these rules actually goes on.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no problem? then why is he appealing if it's no problem?

Here is your answer straight from the horse's mouth:

"I don't have an issue with their ruling," Dutrow said from New York. "I'm only appealing because I need to be with these horses. I've got some really good horses right now, and I can't afford to be away from them for that kind of time."

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

Here is your answer straight from the horse's mouth:

"I don't have an issue with their ruling," Dutrow said from New York. "I'm only appealing because I need to be with these horses. I've got some really good horses right now, and I can't afford to be away from them for that kind of time."

so, it is a problem. guy ought to be a politician.