Jeremy Rose

[SentToStud]

Russell Baze got 15 (30?) days for misuse of the whip. Six months for Rose would seem very excessive.

[Antitrust32]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Russell Baze got 15 (30?) days for misuse of the whip. Six months for Rose would seem very excessive.

and didnt that horse die in the baze case? (just asking... nobody get on my case if i am not right because I dont know for sure!)

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Wasn't the Baze case an incident of him trying to ride out a horse who appeared to be going wrong just before the wire?

This sounds like straight up abuse if it is true.

Baze could always say that he wasn't sure his horse was going wrong until it was too late.

If all of this is true then it's an appropriate suspension. These guys have to be punished where it hurts...the wallet.

[parsixfarms]

The part that has always befuddled me is the gross disparity between sanctions handed down to jockeys and those handed down for trainers. If he is going to get six months, then "the authorities" are saying that his offense is 2-3X worse than the misdeeds of trainers with "bad" positives. It just doesn't compute. No wonder the riders feel that they are treated as if they are a fungible commodity.

[horseofcourse]

Why on earth is Rose hitting a horse with a whip on the head?? Was it accidental or was he just banging him on the noggin??

[The Indomitable DrugS]

I just watched it - it was Appeal To The City in the 3rd at Delaware Park yesterday.

Right before the wire he smacks the horse in the face with a left handed whip.

Watch for yourself at Cal Racing.

[Indian Charlie]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I just watched it - it was Appeal To The City in the 3rd at Delaware Park yesterday.

Right before the wire he smacks the horse in the face with a left handed whip.

Watch for yourself at Cal Racing.

the head on shows more, but it's hard to tell if it was intentional. Probably was.

[slotdirt]

He rode the winner in the feature yesterday, which I'd gather is after the race in question.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

the head on shows more, but it's hard to tell if it was intentional. Probably was.

It was 100% intentional.

There is no story out yet, but I just glanced over the chart comments from his mounts yesterday and when I read that a horse he was riding "shied from the whip" I figured it was the race.

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I just watched it - it was Appeal To The City in the 3rd at Delaware Park yesterday.

Right before the wire he smacks the horse in the face with a left handed whip.

Watch for yourself at Cal Racing.

I may be a tard for this, but when I log into Cal Racing, I can only choose from California tracks' replays. How do I get Delaware?

[Scav]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

I may be a tard for this, but when I log into Cal Racing, I can only choose from California tracks' replays. How do I get Delaware?

You have to type the horses name in, can't do it via track unless it is california
Appeal To The City is the name, according to Drugs...

[tiggerv]

Just watched the replay. What an absolute clown.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

The part that has always befuddled me is the gross disparity between sanctions handed down to jockeys and those handed down for trainers. If he is going to get six months, then "the authorities" are saying that his offense is 2-3X worse than the misdeeds of trainers with "bad" positives. It just doesn't compute. No wonder the riders feel that they are treated as if they are a fungible commodity.

Jockeys usually get 7 day penalties that they delay until winter when they wont be riding anyway. How many get 6 months? Assmussen got 6 months and Biancone effectively got a year and he didnt even get a positive. I find that jockeys usually get days for things that are either dangerous or intentional. The vast majority of medication positives are neither dangerous or intentional.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Jockeys usually get 7 day penalties that they delay until winter when they wont be riding anyway. How many get 6 months? Assmussen got 6 months and Biancone effectively got a year and he didnt even get a positive. I find that jockeys usually get days for things that are either dangerous or intentional. The vast majority of medication positives are neither dangerous or intentional.

I'm thinking about those jockeys at Tampa who got ruled off the grounds immediately - with an effective penalty far worse than a few days, and the "battery" incident where the guy lost his license for a few years, if I recall.

I agree that the jockeys' appeals until December render the "typical" careless riding suspensions meaningless.

The trainers that you referenced are the only ones that I can remember getting penalties that severe, and I doubt their misdeeds were unintentional.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

I'm thinking about those jockeys at Tampa who got ruled off the grounds immediately - with an effective penalty far worse than a few days, and the "battery" incident where the guy lost his license for a few years, if I recall.

I agree that the jockeys' appeals until December render the "typical" careless riding suspensions meaningless.

The trainers that you referenced are the only ones that I can remember getting penalties that severe, and I doubt their misdeeds were unintentional.

I cant say too much about the Tampa situation other than where the is smoke...

I hope you arent saying that using an electrical device is the equal to a medication positive? Maybe for etorphine. As we have discussed far too often about positive tests, the system sucks, most positives have no effect on the horse, and the vast majority are for allowed meds. A "machine" is blatantly illegal.

I can remember lots of trainers getting 30 to 45 day suspensions including Pletcher.

The difference between a jockey getting days and a trainer getting days is that the trainer has employees and expenses that dont go away. A jock packs his stuff and goes on vacation. Not to mention the trouble caused for the connections who have to scramble to find a new rider, often after the best jocks are already locked up.

[parsixfarms]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I hope you arent saying that using an electrical device is the equal to a medication positive? Maybe for etorphine. As we have discussed far too often about positive tests, the system sucks, most positives have no effect on the horse, and the vast majority are for allowed meds. A "machine" is blatantly illegal.

I can remember lots of trainers getting 30 to 45 day suspensions including Pletcher.

The difference between a jockey getting days and a trainer getting days is that the trainer has employees and expenses that dont go away. A jock packs his stuff and goes on vacation. Not to mention the trouble caused for the connections who have to scramble to find a new rider, often after the best jocks are already locked up.

I'm not talking about the careless medication overage/positive. I'm talking about the intentional stuff. To me, knowingly giving a horse an illegal painkiller (also "blatantly illegal" to use your term) is no less brutal than using a battery; in some ways, its more brutal, because it puts the life of both horse and rider at risk, not to mention those of others in the same race.

The 30 to 45 day suspensions that these high profile trainers received were appealed endlessly, often negotiated down as part of some agreement, and then rendered effectively meaningless when the keys to the store were simply turned over to the assistant. The old adage that "justice delayed is justice denied" applies in these situations.

[docicu3]

Originally Posted by SentToStud

Russell Baze got 15 (30?) days for misuse of the whip. Six months for Rose would seem very excessive.

Baze popped that horse twice trying to hold on to a placing finish in the stretch run of a race in Northern California where I am not convinced his use of the whip was excessive at all or that he even knew the horse was in trouble when he hit him the first time. He backed off the whip within less than a second but unfortunately he was dealing with a horse who had suffered an injury and he looked abusive in front of a grandstand for all to see.

An incident during a race should be treated completely differently than an action after a race such as what Stokes did one night at the Mountain recently or the jock in Philly who was disciplined a couple months back.