Not Phone, First Samurai, etc

Ironhorse - Weak as could be, thank you please.

Ky Derby winner - not there. Preakness winner - not there.

4th place finisher in the Ky Derby and entry in the Belmont - a maiden - did you know this or do you have a different angle?

3rd place finisher in the Preakness and entry in the Belmont - a MAIDEN - did you know this or do you have a different angle?

That's A Given won a 1 1/8 race at Belmont under a hand ride in almost the identical time as Sunriver's Peter Pan win (under a strong whipping).

Who are your strong, quality contenders? Please enlighten me. Lansdon

[Scurlogue Champ]

Lansdon,

I saw that Team Valor colt's last race and he looks like he likes to run a little.

I'm not sure how he will adjust to the surface and/or the pace scenario but he looks to be good. If yours is sitting on one, I would fire that little guy out there and see what happens.

[Dunbar]

Lbig, I agree it's a relatively weak field. That's why the floodgates are apparently open for entries, and they are streaming in. If they keep streaming, the race may not be so easy.

I would not run a young horse in a 1.5 mile race carrying 126 lbs unless 2 things were true: 1. It was the Belmont Stakes. 2. I thought my horse had a VERY good chance to win.

"A shot" would not be enough for me. A "good chance" would also not be enough.

If your horse goes, I'll be rooting for him. But I personally think it would be better to pick and choose from the summer stakes.

--Dunbar

[zippyneedsawin]

I don't think anybody is calling the Belmont "easy," just that the "big guns" are not going.. making it a weaker field than expected. It'll still take a geat effort for any horse to cross the wire first!

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Lbig, I agree it's a relatively weak field. That's why the floodgates are apparently open for entries, and they are streaming in. If they keep streaming, the race may not be so easy.

I would not run a young horse in a 1.5 mile race carrying 126 lbs unless 2 things were true: 1. It was the Belmont Stakes. 2. I thought my horse had a VERY good chance to win.

"A shot" would not be enough for me. A "good chance" would also not be enough.

If your horse goes, I'll be rooting for him. But I personally think it would be better to pick and choose from the summer stakes.

--Dunbar

[zippyneedsawin]

LDog!! Good to see you on the DerbyTrail board.. great, ain't it??

Glad to hear FS is doing well, all the best on a safe return to the track..
I like the thought of running That's a Given in the Belmont. Why not?.. It IS a weaker than normal triple crown race. He could certainly grab a piece (if not the whole thing!!)
-I didn't see the NP race, I assumed he just didn't fire.. I didn't know he checked several times.. better racing luck next time!!
take care,

dan

[hoovesupsideyourhead]

just watched thats a given may 13 race..hell yes id put him in..he wasnt even asked..1.10 .6f..he has every chance to get a placing..if he came out of the race ok ..fire him..

i see a noble causeway colt won the shoemaker mile, any plans on keeping first sam a little shorter than 9f.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Lbigdog77

Ironhorse - Weak as could be, thank you please.

Ky Derby winner - not there. Preakness winner - not there.

4th place finisher in the Ky Derby and entry in the Belmont - a maiden - did you know this or do you have a different angle?

3rd place finisher in the Preakness and entry in the Belmont - a MAIDEN - did you know this or do you have a different angle?

That's A Given won a 1 1/8 race at Belmont under a hand ride in almost the identical time as Sunriver's Peter Pan win (under a strong whipping).

Who are your strong, quality contenders? Please enlighten me. Lansdon

You are missing my point. Despite the fact that Barbaro and Bernardini are not running there still are some good horses running in here. They also have a good solid foundation for this race. I disagree with you that they are all weak. I do agree that some in here seem to be reaching.

Bluegrass Cat, Deputy Glitters, Jazil, Steppenwolfer, Sunriver and Bob & John seem to be the stronger horses.

I have a hard time using your horses race in comparison to Sunriver for two reasons. Different day and maiden field vs. a stakes field.

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

You are missing my point. Despite the fact that Barbaro and Bernardini are not running there still are some good horses running in here. They also have a good solid foundation for this race. I disagree with you that they are all weak. I do agree that some in here seem to be reaching.

Bluegrass Cat, Deputy Glitters, Jazil, Steppenwolfer, Sunriver and Bob & John seem to be the stronger horses.

I have a hard time using your horses race in comparison to Sunriver for two reasons. Different day and maiden field vs. a stakes field.

Funny thats what they said about sarava and Commendable as well as Noalns Cat last year before he hit the board.
Its a mile and a half race and at this time of year what some would call foundation, others would call over the top. The horses you just named have all been going at it very hard since last fall/winter. I've seen many melt down in the belmont who fit their profile. No doubt if he runs he will be a big price, thats justified. But Belmont Park is a particularly quirky surface, note Silver Trains dominance on it while being just average everyplace else. If you have a horse who handles big Sandy, you are always more inclined to take a shot. I also know that if Thats A Given had to ship for this race that he would not be considered. But when they are running a race atyour home track and you dont have teh taxation of shipping, its reasonable to tak a shot where you might not. One other thing, the detention barn has been an issue with amny horses who come to NY to race. It affected the BC last fall as a few horses flipped out in it. Obviously, Thats A given has handled it and it only meansa short walk from his stall.
The non winners of one condition will be written once a week at a track he can run at for the rest of this summer. hes already tri crwon nominated so its not like they are gambling a late fee, or shipping expenses. just taking a colt who appears to be getting sharper and taking a shot on his home track which he loves, in a race that his sire won by a city block. I guess its a good thing Lukas and Mcpeek didn't listen to people when Commendable and Sarava ran and won as "hopelessly overmatched horses" in 2000 and 2002.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Funny thats what they said about sarava and Commendable as well as Noalns Cat last year before he hit the board.
Its a mile and a half race and at this time of year what some would call foundation, others would call over the top. The horses you just named have all been going at it very hard since last fall/winter. I've seen many melt down in the belmont who fit their profile. No doubt if he runs he will be a big price, thats justified. But Belmont Park is a particularly quirky surface, note Silver Trains dominance on it while being just average everyplace else. If you have a horse who handles big Sandy, you are always more inclined to take a shot. I also know that if Thats A Given had to ship for this race that he would not be considered. But when they are running a race atyour home track and you dont have teh taxation of shipping, its reasonable to tak a shot where you might not. One other thing, the detention barn has been an issue with amny horses who come to NY to race. It affected the BC last fall as a few horses flipped out in it. Obviously, Thats A given has handled it and it only meansa short walk from his stall.
The non winners of one condition will be written once a week at a track he can run at for the rest of this summer. hes already tri crwon nominated so its not like they are gambling a late fee, or shipping expenses. just taking a colt who appears to be getting sharper and taking a shot on his home track which he loves, in a race that his sire won by a city block. I guess its a good thing Lukas and Mcpeek didn't listen to people when Commendable and Sarava ran and won as "hopelessly overmatched horses" in 2000 and 2002.

I agree. I had Nolan's Cat last year in my tri (didn't have Andromeda's Hero though DUH), and I was glad that I didn't listen to everyone else who said he had no shot of hitting the board. I would give "That's a Given" a chance in the Belmont based upon his pedigree alone. This field is a weak field (compared to those in the past) and I think that the colt deserves a chance.

Ironhorse - You confuse me. Why is Jazil listed as one of your top Belmont selections? He's a maiden ... never won a race, but now he's a top pick for a grade I win?

I would never post here saying I'm confident That's A Given will win the Belmont (we may not even enter him). But could he run well and finish in the money (and possibly, long shot as it may be, win)? Absolutely.

You have no right to call me "arrogant". "Hopeful", yes. "Optimistic", yes.

If you meet me in person, then you have every right to call me whatever you want. Until that day, please refrain from the negative labeling. We can get plenty of that on the ESPN board.

Lansdon

[randallscott35]

Jazil is not a maiden. He won a Mdsp at AQ in December.

[zippyneedsawin]

I think Sacred Light is the maiden Ldog is thinking of.

Originally Posted by Lbigdog77

Ironhorse - You confuse me. Why is Jazil listed as one of your top Belmont selections? He's a maiden ... never won a race, but now he's a top pick for a grade I win?

I would never post here saying I'm confident That's A Given will win the Belmont (we may not even enter him). But could he run well and finish in the money (and possibly, long shot as it may be, win)? Absolutely.

You have no right to call me "arrogant". "Hopeful", yes. "Optimistic", yes.

If you meet me in person, then you have every right to call me whatever you want. Until that day, please refrain from the negative labeling. We can get plenty of that on the ESPN board.

Lansdon

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by Lbigdog77

Ironhorse - You confuse me. Why is Jazil listed as one of your top Belmont selections? He's a maiden ... never won a race, but now he's a top pick for a grade I win?

I would never post here saying I'm confident That's A Given will win the Belmont (we may not even enter him). But could he run well and finish in the money (and possibly, long shot as it may be, win)? Absolutely.

You have no right to call me "arrogant". "Hopeful", yes. "Optimistic", yes.

If you meet me in person, then you have every right to call me whatever you want. Until that day, please refrain from the negative labeling. We can get plenty of that on the ESPN board.

Lansdon

My intention was not to offend you if I did I apologize. I agree about the ESPN site as well. The personal attacks and trashing of horses is uncalled for. Maybe arrogant was too strong a word but I really question running a maiden winner in the Belmont. It just seems that because Barbaro and Bernardini are not running people are dismissing the other runners as weak. I believe there are still some quality seasoned horses in the race and asking a recent maiden to beat them is a tall order. I think your horse looks like a good one I would get him a couple more wins than step up for the fall. I realize that is just my opinion and you could careless its just to explain to you where I am coming from.

[randallscott35]

If Commendable can win the Belmont, pretty much any horse can. Worst winner of a Triple Crown race in history.

[jpops757]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

My intention was not to offend you if I did I apologize. I agree about the ESPN site as well. The personal attacks and trashing of horses is uncalled for. Maybe arrogant was too strong a word but I really question running a maiden winner in the Belmont. It just seems that because Barbaro and Bernardini are not running people are dismissing the other runners as weak. I believe there are still some quality seasoned horses in the race and asking a recent maiden to beat them is a tall order. I think your horse looks like a good one I would get him a couple more wins than step up for the fall. I realize that is just my opinion and you could careless its just to explain to you where I am coming from.

What is the reason for racing. The bottom line is money. I thing lbig is a great example of of horse ownership and looks out for his horses well being But cashing checks helps him stay in the business. Imaintain an enty in the belmount will produce a better return for him with the big purse in the Belmont. Even with a 5th he will get a better check than a N/W of 1 race. Who are we only fans and gamblers questioning a owner of his status. I have opinions of what to do but I dont think im qualified to tell him how to run his stable.

[kentuckyrosesinmay]

Glad to have you back Lansdon. I really enjoy your posts. You seem to manage your horses really well, and put them in good spots where you think they have a chance. If you think That's A Given stands a chance, I would say go for it. I would personally love to see him run, and I love rooting for your horses. The Belmont is shaping up to be a great race because it is so wide open. I hope First Samuri makes it back soon.