Dedumbeaux's Ride

[fpsoxfan]

Originally Posted by miraja2

Really?
I guess I'm glad some people enjoyed it.
I found it to be one of the least "fun" and/or "interesting" TC years in recent decades.

If you didn't find it at least a little fun and or interesting then why are you involved in this sport? The prep races weren't at the very least interesting?
The five weeks of the three triple crown races weren't interesting? For something that wasn't interesting it sure generated a lot of threads on this forum. What does it have to be like in order for it to make it more interesting to you?

[Danzig]

desormeaux admitted that the horse wanted to keep going, that there was nothing wrong with him. can he get in trouble for not riding to the wire? i remember a jock a few years ago got a lengthy suspension because he didn't try all the way to the finish.

as for the horse yesterday-i think it was a combination of factors that got big brown beat. the foot, the heat possibly, the rail, rank early and being taken back-i think kent took him out of his game there, expecting da tara to fold like a cheap tent.
everyone had said that with his speed early, no front runner could stay with him-and we know what happened in the fla derby, no one could catch hiim late...it's like kent forced brown to run with the horses, and that's exactly what big brown wanted to do the rest of the race.

Originally Posted by Danzig

desormeaux admitted that the horse wanted to keep going, that there was nothing wrong with him. can he get in trouble for not riding to the wire? i remember a jock a few years ago got a lengthy suspension because he didn't try all the way to the finish.

as for the horse yesterday-i think it was a combination of factors that got big brown beat. the foot, the heat possibly, the rail, rank early and being taken back-i think kent took him out of his game there, expecting da tara to fold like a cheap tent.
everyone had said that with his speed early, no front runner could stay with him-and we know what happened in the fla derby, no one could catch hiim late...it's like kent forced brown to run with the horses, and that's exactly what big brown wanted to do the rest of the race.

I feel sorry for the horse. He really did want to go on.
But he was just spinning his wheels, he had nothing
for whatever reason. I still like the horse. He is game.
Look like he had every intention of continuing.

I think the foot probably concerned Kent D. more than
anything. Driving a dead horse forward... I dont fault
him for stopping Brown. Consequences if the hoof went
bad... deep doo doo.

The first part of the race was really tough. DaTara shot
out, Brown ran up his butt, then Coa had a good enough
start to pin him for a short time.
He went outside of Coa and Coa took him way out.

Coa did nothing illegal but that guy is ruthless.

Oops I see Mr. Travis has posted somewhat the same
thing. My apologies.

[ArlJim78]

if nothing was wrong with Big Brown, why not just wrap him up and gallop to the wire? it does seem ridiculous to pull him up like he was injured.

[miraja2]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

it does seem ridiculous to pull him up like he was injured.

I think you may have answered your own question correctly earlier in this thread.

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

Kent stopped on him I think just to not have the indignity of getting passed by the maiden while in a drive.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

if nothing was wrong with Big Brown, why not just wrap him up and gallop to the wire? it does seem ridiculous to pull him up like he was injured.

why not be extra cautious with your 50 million dollar horse?

[ArlJim78]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

why not be extra cautious with your 50 million dollar horse?

what exactly is risky about galloping a horse that is fine? i said that i can see wrapping him up, but pulling him up is another thing.

so should all $50 million horses be allowed to just pull up whenever they want, while all the other grunts have to battle it out?

he did it not because of a concern for the horse but because of the shame it would have caused to cross the wire 30 lengths behind with a 1-5 shot supposed super horse.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what exactly is risky about galloping a horse that is fine? i said that i can see wrapping him up, but pulling him up is another thing.

so should all $50 million horses be allowed to just pull up whenever they want, while all the other grunts have to battle it out?

he did it not because of a concern for the horse but because of the shame it would have caused to cross the wire 30 lengths behind with a 1-5 shot supposed super horse.

How do you know what was going on in kent Desormeaux's brain ? Thats not what he said in the interview.

Something wasnt right and he didnt know what it was. Better to pull him up then to gallop him out if he wasnt sure.

[stareagle]

Originally Posted by ArlJim78

what exactly is risky about galloping a horse that is fine? i said that i can see wrapping him up, but pulling him up is another thing.

Desormeaux didn't think the horse was fine, so he played it carefully. That was the absolute correct thing to do, unless you expect him to give him a full vet exam during the race.

Besides, it isn't like KD eased him while he was running hard for the win. Watch the replay - he doesn't do it until horses are already streaming by him.

[blackthroatedwind]

Coa is being criticized her for herding Big Brown on the backstretch? Funny stuff. I guess the irony of this is being missed by most. Desormeaux has been herding and intimidating other riders with regularity. Apparently Coa shouldn't return the favor?

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Coa is being criticized her for herding Big Brown on the backstretch? Funny stuff. I guess the irony of this is being missed by most. Desormeaux has been herding and intimidating other riders with regularity. Apparently Coa shouldn't return the favor?

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

What exactly is a " dirty rider? "

People comment on fragile horses these days but the animals aren't the only ones that are more genteel than the old days. If Coa is " dirty " then what about one of the greatest riders of all time, Angel Cordero?

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

No doubt Coa is a dirty rider but its all part of the game. Big Brown was the favorite and in order to win you have to beat the favorite. Race riding is part of it. I just hope that Big Brown's connections don't cry about it the way Smarty's connections did.

IF it is all apart of the game then we might as well go back to the fairs where riders used to beat and whip fellow riders during races. That isn't apart of the game. There is a certain amount of decorum that must be expected. Without it you have chaos. And please, Smarty's connections had good reason. Eddington notably was taken totally out of his game just to push and hound Smarty. Smarty finishes a tough beaten second. Eddington and some others were way back near last. Race Riding is apart of it and I don't have a problem with that. But Coa and Kenny D both put fellow jocks in jeopardy at times without any consequence. And you race ride in an effort to get an advantage for YOUR OWN HORSE. Not just to try and get someone else beaten even if it means you totally compromise your horses chances.

[the_fat_man]

I must be missing the point, with a horse that was eased.

You know what we should be discussing when it comes to trips/rides? How about:

1) Cornelio blocking Kent the length of the stretch on Friday, with the other half of the Mott entry. I've been betting over 30 years and I've seen a lot of stupid **** but a jock going out of his way to shut off a winning move by his entry mate is about as DUMBASS as it gets. YET, no comments on this forum.

2) How about Edgar going 4 wide on the 1st turn with Pays to Dream? I mean, the horse is coming off the pace anyway so why not sit on the rail, like the winner, or the 2 path, like the runner up? Run an extra 30-45 feet or so, lose by 1/2 length and get vanned off. Nice at 11:1 ............

This kind of stuff is interesting when it comes to trips. A horse that doesn't fire, for whatever reason, is not.

Let's try to take it up a notch.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

I must be missing the point, with a horse that was eased.

You know what we should be discussing when it comes to trips/rides? How about:

1) Cornelio blocking Kent the length of the stretch on Friday, with the other half of the Mott entry. I've been betting over 30 years and I've seen a lot of stupid **** but a jock going out of his way to shut off a winning move by his entry mate is about as DUMBASS as it gets. YET, no comments on this forum.

2) How about Edgar going 4 wide on the 1st turn with Pays to Dream? I mean, the horse is coming off the pace anyway so why not sit on the rail, like the winner, or the 2 path, like the runner up? Run an extra 30-45 feet or so, lose by 1/2 length and get vanned off. Nice at 11:1 ............

This kind of stuff is interesting when it comes to trips. A horse that doesn't fire, for whatever reason, is not.

Let's try to take it up a notch.

Agreed on all counts. Well said.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by the_fat_man

1) Cornelio blocking Kent the length of the stretch on Friday, with the other half of the Mott entry. I've been betting over 30 years and I've seen a lot of stupid **** but a jock going out of his way to shut off a winning move by his entry mate is about as DUMBASS as it gets. YET, no comments on this forum.

Kent likes to get buried inside on the turf....it's his move and hardly Cornelio's fault. Out of curiousity.....did those two horses have the same owner? Didn't Cornelio finish second?

[Handicappy]

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

Coa is being criticized her for herding Big Brown on the backstretch? Funny stuff. I guess the irony of this is being missed by most. Desormeaux has been herding and intimidating other riders with regularity. Apparently Coa shouldn't return the favor?

Thank You for this. KD is one of the worst. He cops an attitude and the next thing is he is taking your horse in the race 5 wide for no apparent reason. Of interest is he took an Alan Garcia horse, No Reply, wide on a far turn with a horse who had nothing left. The stewards get ear fulls regularly on why this guy isn't suspended off of some of his rides. Thanks for the comment. I agree totally.

[MaTH716]

It is always interesting (how can it not be). To have a horse going for the TC and for there to be so much negativity around him is a story all by itself. The slimy connections and the daily sleaze that came out. Dutrow enough said tere. The whole 3 weeks of Casino Drive/Quarter crack press. From War Pass, to Pyro and Colonel John not running a lick in the Derby. To the Eight Bells tradgedy (which personally I think took alot of the fun out of the races). Synthetic to first time dirt and so on, definatley interesting. As far as fun, I am not sure. Because deep down I am not sure if I am happy or sad that he lost. I know that I want to se a triple crown winner in a bad way. But for some reason deep down I didn't want it to be this horse. I just can't explain it, but I understand where you are coming from when you say no fun.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by MaTH716

It is always interesting (how can it not be). To have a horse going for the TC and for there to be so much negativity around him is a story all by itself. The slimy connections and the daily sleaze that came out. Dutrow enough said tere. The whole 3 weeks of Casino Drive/Quarter crack press. From War Pass, to Pyro and Colonel John not running a lick in the Derby. To the Eight Bells tradgedy (which personally I think took alot of the fun out of the races). Synthetic to first time dirt and so on, definatley interesting. As far as fun, I am not sure. Because deep down I am not sure if I am happy or sad that he lost. I know that I want to se a triple crown winner in a bad way. But for some reason deep down I didn't want it to be this horse. I just can't explain it, but I understand where you are coming from when you say no fun.

with me, when i thought about big brown, i remembered the last four tc winners, and those who came so close to it..and then i thought, this horse should get what spectacular bid could not, what sunday silence could not, silver charm, etc?
big cy, secretariat, slew and affirmed were all incredibly special horses, they proved it both before and after the tc-it wasn't just the tc win that made them special. i think it would have been the only thing to make BB special had he won it.
citation won the tc in the midst of a winning streak that still stands today. he beat the reigning hoy very early in his 3 yo season-what horse today comes close to that? none. he ran as an older horse, leaving some memorable performances when carrying weight the likes of which will never be seen again.
secretariat was in the running for HOY as a two year old, but ended up not getting it, as many felt a 2 yo who hadn't faced open competition shouldn't be awarded. winning the tc for him didn't make him that special horse, but the way he did it. three records (get with the program mjc!!) in the three races, with a new record set for margin of victory in the belmont.
slew, first to get thru undefeated, and the only tc winner to face off vs another tc winner-and he won vs affirmed.
and then affirmed, who had alydar to make him look that much better in victory, and then faces off vs one of the best horses the world has ever seen, handing bid his last loss.

so yeah, brownie left me less than awed. yeah, the owners are cheesy, the trainer is who he is....but the horse, and probably the best this year, was not one i, and many others apparently, thought was worthy. and he wasn't.

[GenuineRisk]

Originally Posted by Danzig

secretariat was in the running for HOY as a two year old, but ended up not getting it, as many felt a 2 yo who hadn't faced open competition shouldn't be awarded.

In what Bizarro Universe was Secretariat not Horse of the Year as a 2-year-old?