Chop Chop moves tack to SoCal

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Hey Rupert-

Check out the article printed above and what is your response to the bolded, underlined text?

Checkmate pal.

That's hardly check mate. You haven't countered any of my arguments. I've countered practically every argument you've made.

After reading that article, I would say that there could be some truth to some of the stuff you are saying. It's only an article though. Sports writers are known for hyperbole. The problem with the article is there's not a single quote from a single trainer in that article. There wasn't even one trainer that he could quote that confirmed his hypothesis as to the cause of Desormeaux's downfall. If there were quotes from at least a few trainers saying that they think that Kent is a great jock but they won't ride him because of his work ethic, then you would at least have some evidence that some trainers out there confirm what you are saying.

I thought the article in 1995 said that he was getting his act together and working hard. Your articles have done just as much damage to your argument as they have helped your argument. If the trainers truly think he has so much talent and their only problem with him is his work ethic, then they would have started to ride him again after they saw that he was working hard again. The fact that trainers still would not ride him even when his attitude and work ethic were good is evidence that the problem was with his riding rather than his work ethic. I guess I can say "check mate" now.

[Rupert Pupkin]

By the way, most trainers are very forgiving. As long as they think you still have the ability, they will usually forgive past indiscretions. Look at how many times P Val has tested positive for drugs. Yet every time he comes back, they give him another chance. The reason they always give him another chance is because they think he's a great jockey. They will ride him despite his personal shortcomings because he is a great jockey and there aren't that many great jockeys out there. There are a lot of good jockeys but not that many great ones. If they thought Desormeaux was a great rider, they would ride him, even if they had some issues with him. They obviously don't think he's that good any more.

Why would they still be willing to ride P Val with all of his problems but not Kent? The reason is obvious. They think P Val is a much better jockey.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

That's hardly check mate. You haven't countered any of my arguments. I've countered practically every argument you've made.

After reading that article, I would say that there could be some truth to some of the stuff you are saying. It's only an article though. Sports writers are known for hyperbole. The problem with the article is there's not a single quote from a single trainer in that article. There wasn't even one trainer that he could quote that confirmed his hypothesis as to the cause of Desormeaux's downfall. If there were quotes from at least a few trainers saying that they think that Kent is a great jock but they won't ride him because of his work ethic, then you would at least have some evidence that some trainers out there confirm what you are saying.

I thought the article in 1995 said that he was getting his act together and working hard. Your articles have done just as much damage to your argument as they have helped your argument. If the trainers truly think he has so much talent and their only problem with him is his work ethic, then they would have started to ride him again after they saw that he was working hard again. The fact that trainers still would not ride him even when his attitude and work ethic were good is evidence that the problem was with his riding rather than his work ethic. I guess I can say "check mate" now.

Rupert, are you that out of touch? Seriously dude, you are looking extremely uninformed. Seriously. Remember, from 1995 on kent rode mulitple riding titles, 2 kenutcky derbies and a couple of breeders cup races. The trainers DID give him chances again obviously. If they didnt, how could he have won the riding titles and races that he won?

They eventually grew tired of giving him chances. Here is another article that kind of illustrates how many "resurrections" he's had:

ARCADIA, Calif. - Never underestimate the motivational power of real estate. Kent Desormeaux, winner of the Oak Tree Derby and the Goodwood Handicap on successive weekends at Santa Anita, is riding like a man paying for a new piece of property, which he is.

And while anyone else who had moved barely two weeks ago would be exhausted from hauling boxes, unpacking record collections, or pushing that 300-pound armoire "just a little bit more to the right," Desormeaux seems invigorated. Leave it to Kent to concoct an image that suits his new surroundings.

"I feel like I've finally placed myself in a trophy," he said, "instead of having so many trophies in a lesser home."

No one is more entertaining than Desormeaux when he gets on a verbal roll. And no one can articulate the details of his craft quite like Kent, who knows precisely why he does whatever he does at each and every point of a race, whether it works or not.

His ride aboard the former European colt No Slip in the Oak Tree Derby last Saturday was a thriller. Then on Sunday, he nearly stole the Harold Ramser Handicap with the longshot Walts Wharf. Combine that with his Goodwood upset aboard Freedom Crest and four more winners over the weekend, and you have the makings of a good, old-fashioned Desormeaux resurrection.

Usually, there is only one resurrection to a customer. At the age of 31, Desormeaux seems to be drawing from a lifetime supply. There was his rise and fall and rise again in the mid-1990's, culminated by his 1998 Kentucky Derby and Preakness victories aboard Real Quiet. Then came another business crash, followed by another glorious rebirth on the wings of Fusaichi Pegasus in the 2000 Derby.
Desormeaux took fate into his own hands earlier this year and uprooted his family to Japan for a lucrative mini-season of competition. He made a ton of money and thousands of fans, while spending more time than ever before with his wife, Sonia, and sons Josh and Jake.

The gamble had a price. When Desormeaux returned to California in July, it took most of the Del Mar meet to build any head of steam. The past two weeks have been more typical of a career than includes more than 4,000 winners and three Eclipse Awards.

"I hope it's back to business as usual," Desormeaux said. "I certainly am attempting to be out there, and show the smiling fresh face that has returned from Japan. I have no desire to be a jockey that's just hanging around the colony. It's my desire to be number one."

Perhaps more than any other top rider, Desormeaux wears his technique on his sleeve. He tries things on horseback that may look strange, or go against the grain.

But, more often than not, they work. His ride aboard No Slip was a perfect example.

Far back on a slow pace, Desormeaux and his colt came flying in the final 100 yards to beat Laffit Pincay and Sligo Bay by the thinnest possible nose. The contrast in finishing styles was striking. Pincay was coiling and uncoiling in his familiar humpbacked profile, like a powerful spring attached to the back of the animal. Then there was Desormeaux, on the outside, arms flailing and reins flapping, "tossing salad" to beat the band. He explained.

"For me, it works better than the whip," Kent began. "It gets a horse to find more, deep down. If you think about lifting a dumbbell, the first thing you do is grit your teeth and wince with strain. Horses are the same. They bite their teeth, and when they become fatigued, the first thing they do is let go and spit the bit.

"I encourage them by giving the bit a light tug and twirling it in their mouth, enticing them to chomp back down on the bridle and take it forward. At the same time, my right hand is behind flashed right beside their eye. So I'm chasing them forward, trying to get them to bite the bridle."

The Desormeaux comeback could be complete if he makes an impact on Breeders' Cup Day, Oct. 27, at Belmont Park. He is looking forward to riding Freedom Crest against the best the world can muster in the $4 million Classic. And he is particularly excited about his mount in the $1 million Juvenile.

"This will be a very special year," he said. "I'm going to win the Juvenile for my brother. How about that?"

That would be fine by Keith Desormeaux, the brother in question, and trainer of French Assault. He is a son of French Deputy, out of a granddaughter of Six Crowns, who has run six times and won twice, including a stakes at Retama Park. In his most recent start, French Assault was second in the Kentucky Cup Juvenile.

"I rode him at Turfway," Kent said. "He was a very good second in my eyes. I didn't know the colt, and I think I would have won the race had I been on him before."

So what Desormeaux is saying, with a smile and flash of his dark brown eyes, is that French Assault is going to beat Officer, everyone else's best bet of the day.

"Yes, he will," Desormeaux replied. And for a second, you almost believed him.



I bolded the part that explains what happened.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Rupert, are you that out of touch? Seriously dude, you are looking extremely uninformed. Seriously. Remember, from 1995 on kent rode mulitple riding titles, 2 kenutcky derbies and a couple of breeders cup races. The trainers DID give him chances again obviously. If they didnt, how could he have won the riding titles and races that he won?

They eventually grew tired of giving him chances. Here is another article that kind of illustrates how many "resurrections" he's had:

ARCADIA, Calif. - Never underestimate the motivational power of real estate. Kent Desormeaux, winner of the Oak Tree Derby and the Goodwood Handicap on successive weekends at Santa Anita, is riding like a man paying for a new piece of property, which he is.

And while anyone else who had moved barely two weeks ago would be exhausted from hauling boxes, unpacking record collections, or pushing that 300-pound armoire "just a little bit more to the right," Desormeaux seems invigorated. Leave it to Kent to concoct an image that suits his new surroundings.

"I feel like I've finally placed myself in a trophy," he said, "instead of having so many trophies in a lesser home."

No one is more entertaining than Desormeaux when he gets on a verbal roll. And no one can articulate the details of his craft quite like Kent, who knows precisely why he does whatever he does at each and every point of a race, whether it works or not.

His ride aboard the former European colt No Slip in the Oak Tree Derby last Saturday was a thriller. Then on Sunday, he nearly stole the Harold Ramser Handicap with the longshot Walts Wharf. Combine that with his Goodwood upset aboard Freedom Crest and four more winners over the weekend, and you have the makings of a good, old-fashioned Desormeaux resurrection.

Usually, there is only one resurrection to a customer. At the age of 31, Desormeaux seems to be drawing from a lifetime supply. There was his rise and fall and rise again in the mid-1990's, culminated by his 1998 Kentucky Derby and Preakness victories aboard Real Quiet. Then came another business crash, followed by another glorious rebirth on the wings of Fusaichi Pegasus in the 2000 Derby.
Desormeaux took fate into his own hands earlier this year and uprooted his family to Japan for a lucrative mini-season of competition. He made a ton of money and thousands of fans, while spending more time than ever before with his wife, Sonia, and sons Josh and Jake.

The gamble had a price. When Desormeaux returned to California in July, it took most of the Del Mar meet to build any head of steam. The past two weeks have been more typical of a career than includes more than 4,000 winners and three Eclipse Awards.

"I hope it's back to business as usual," Desormeaux said. "I certainly am attempting to be out there, and show the smiling fresh face that has returned from Japan. I have no desire to be a jockey that's just hanging around the colony. It's my desire to be number one."

Perhaps more than any other top rider, Desormeaux wears his technique on his sleeve. He tries things on horseback that may look strange, or go against the grain.

But, more often than not, they work. His ride aboard No Slip was a perfect example.

Far back on a slow pace, Desormeaux and his colt came flying in the final 100 yards to beat Laffit Pincay and Sligo Bay by the thinnest possible nose. The contrast in finishing styles was striking. Pincay was coiling and uncoiling in his familiar humpbacked profile, like a powerful spring attached to the back of the animal. Then there was Desormeaux, on the outside, arms flailing and reins flapping, "tossing salad" to beat the band. He explained.

"For me, it works better than the whip," Kent began. "It gets a horse to find more, deep down. If you think about lifting a dumbbell, the first thing you do is grit your teeth and wince with strain. Horses are the same. They bite their teeth, and when they become fatigued, the first thing they do is let go and spit the bit.

"I encourage them by giving the bit a light tug and twirling it in their mouth, enticing them to chomp back down on the bridle and take it forward. At the same time, my right hand is behind flashed right beside their eye. So I'm chasing them forward, trying to get them to bite the bridle."

The Desormeaux comeback could be complete if he makes an impact on Breeders' Cup Day, Oct. 27, at Belmont Park. He is looking forward to riding Freedom Crest against the best the world can muster in the $4 million Classic. And he is particularly excited about his mount in the $1 million Juvenile.

"This will be a very special year," he said. "I'm going to win the Juvenile for my brother. How about that?"

That would be fine by Keith Desormeaux, the brother in question, and trainer of French Assault. He is a son of French Deputy, out of a granddaughter of Six Crowns, who has run six times and won twice, including a stakes at Retama Park. In his most recent start, French Assault was second in the Kentucky Cup Juvenile.

"I rode him at Turfway," Kent said. "He was a very good second in my eyes. I didn't know the colt, and I think I would have won the race had I been on him before."

So what Desormeaux is saying, with a smile and flash of his dark brown eyes, is that French Assault is going to beat Officer, everyone else's best bet of the day.

"Yes, he will," Desormeaux replied. And for a second, you almost believed him.



I bolded the part that explains what happened.

You could write a similar article about practically ever jockey out there with the exception of the few who have been on top the whole time. You could write similar articles about Gryder, Douglas, Solis, Smith, Pincay, Stevens, etc.

You could use the same drama in every story: Laffit Pincay was the leading rider in the country but he fell on hard times. He lost all his business. Nobody could figure out what the problem was. He was finally forced to take his tack up north to the Bay area. But then Pincay came back to Southern California with a new outlook and he got hot again.

Aaron Gryder was riding high in Southern California but he lost his bug and his business was hurting. He was forced to move to the mid-west where he found new life. He had a whole new outlook. Then he went to New York where he found incredible success and was one of the leading riders for several years. Maybe he got complacent, nobody knows but he was slowly losing most of his business and it finally got to the point where he was lucky to crack the top 5 at the inner-dirt meet. The once-successful rider was on a downward spiral. But now he has new life. he decided to move his tack back to Southern California and top trainers such as Jeff Mullins have welcomed him with open arms. He has new life now. The up and down career of Aaron Gryder is on the way up again.

Gary Stevens was the leading rider in the country. He won 3 Ky Derbies and even won the Eclipse Award. But he fell on hard times. People questioned whether he still had the fire in his belly. They questioned whether he could still ride with his bad knees. They questioned whether he was more interested in his movie career than his riding career. He was once the toast of the town on the So Cal circuit and now his business was so bad that he was forced to move to Kentucky. In Kentucky, he found new life. He was riding for top stables such as Patrick Biancone and was near the top of the standings. He had a whole new outlook. He was going out in the mornings again. The up and down career of Gary Stevens was looking up again.

I could write the same thing about another 20 jockeys. That is the life of most jockeys. They're hot for a while then they fall out of favor and nobody wants to ride them. Then they are forced to start working harder and have to start going out every morning. Then they get hot again and things pick up again. Welcome to the life of a jockey.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You could write a similar article about practically ever jockey out there with the exception of the few who have been on top the whole time. You could write similar articles about Gryder, Douglas, Solis, Smith, Pincay, Stevens, etc.

You could use the same drama in every story: Laffit Pincay was the leading rider in the country but he fell on hard times. He lost all his business. Nobody could figure out what the problem was. He was finally forced to take his tack up north to the Bay area. But then Pincay came back to Southern California with a new outlook and he got hot again.

Aaron Gryder was riding high in Southern California but he lost his bug and his business was hurting. He was forced to move to the mid-west where he found new life. He had a whole new outlook. Then he went to New York where he found incredible success and was one of the leading riders for several years. Maybe he got complacent, nobody knows but he was slowly losing most of his business and it finally got to the point where he was lucky to crack the top 5 at the inner-dirt meet. The once-successful rider was on a downward spiral. But now he has new life. he decided to move his tack back to Southern California and top trainers such as Jeff Mullins have welcomed him with open arms. He has new life now. The up and down career of Aaron Gryder is on the way up again.

Gary Stevens was the leading rider in the country. He won 3 Ky Derbies and even won the Eclipse Award. But he fell on hard times. People questioned whether he still had the fire in his belly. They questioned whether he could still ride with his bad knees. They questioned whether he was more interested in his movie career than his riding career. He was once the toast of the town on the So Cal circuit and now his business was so bad that he was forced to move to Kentucky. In Kentucky, he found new life. He was riding for top stables such as Patrick Biancone and was near the top of the standings. He had a whole new outlook. He was going out in the mornings again. The up and down career of Gary Stevens was looking up again.

I could write the same thing about another 20 jockeys. That is the life of most jockeys. They're hot for a while then they fall out of favor and nobody wants to ride them. Then they are forced to start working harder and have to start going out every morning. Then they get hot again and things pick up again. Welcome to the life of a jockey.

Sure you could say the same things about twenty jockeys. But those twenty jockeys wouldnt be the fastest to 4500 wins. The same jockeys wouldnt have the awards or the stature. Very few do. Stevens is one of them. Pval is one of them. Lafit was one of them. Aaron Gryder certainly isnt.

But why are you trying to twist and turn? Why dont you just admit that you were wrong and get on down the road?

My contention was that Kent's problems were more political than ability. Obviously, some people in print agree with me. What do you have to back up your position besides bull****?

My contention was that the riding colonies in So Cal and New York are not comparable. I have backed up my position with facts. What have you done? The same BS style.

Is it possible for you to back up anything that you say? Why continue?

Anyone that has an informed opinion knows what happened with Kent in So cal. Anyone with an informed opinion knows that the jockey colony in So Cal is a far cry from what it use to be and that it isnt even close to NY anymore. Why kill your crediblity over something so inane?

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Sure you could say the same things about twenty jockeys. But those twenty jockeys wouldnt be the fastest to 4500 wins. The same jockeys wouldnt have the awards or the stature. Very few do. Stevens is one of them. Pval is one of them. Lafit was one of them. Aaron Gryder certainly isnt.

But why are you trying to twist and turn? Why dont you just admit that you were wrong and get on down the road?

My contention was that Kent's problems were more political than ability. Obviously, some people in print agree with me. What do you have to back up your position besides bull****?

My contention was that the riding colonies in So Cal and New York are not comparable. I have backed up my position with facts. What have you done? The same BS style.

Is it possible for you to back up anything that you say? Why continue?

Anyone that has an informed opinion knows what happened with Kent in So cal. Anyone with an informed opinion knows that the jockey colony in So Cal is a far cry from what it use to be and that it isnt even close to NY anymore. Why kill your crediblity over something so inane?

I told you I would be honest with you when I started getting some opinions from horsemen. I just got off the phone with a big racing manager/bloodstock agent out here who is at the track every morning. Here is his opinion: He agreed with you about Kent's ability. He thought that Kent was good as anyone at one time. He thought that Kent had a ton of natural ability. He thinks the problem was that Kent started to overanalyze every race and was always trying to get too cute and ride the other horses in the race. He said his attitude has rubbed some people the wrong way. He says that Kent has a pretty big ego.

So he did agree with some of the things you have said. However, he also agreed with what I have said. He doesn't think it's so much a matter of politics. He thinks that Kent doesn't ride that well any more. He thinks that instead of using his natural ability like he used to, that he overanalyzes races and tries to get cute and ends up giving sub-par rides. My opinion differs from this guy in that he thinks that Kent was a great rider at one time. I don't think he was ever great. Me and him both agree that Kent does not ride great any more. He thinks its' more mental. I think it's physical and mental. I don't think he ever had the physical ability of guys like Stevens, McCarron, Bailey, etc.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I told you I would be honest with you when I started getting some opinions from horsemen. I just got off the phone with a big racing manager/bloodstock agent out here who is at the track every morning. Here is his opinion: He agreed with you about Kent's ability. He thought that Kent was good as anyone at one time. He thought that Kent had a ton of natural ability. He thinks the problem was that Kent started to overanalyze every race and was always trying to get too cute and ride the other horses in the race. He said his attitude has rubbed some people the wrong way. He says that Kent has a pretty big ego.

So he did agree with some of the things you have said. However, he also agreed with what I have said. He doesn't think it's so much a matter of politics. He thinks that Kent doesn't ride that well any more. He thinks that instead of using his natural ability like he used to, that he overanalyzes races and tries to get cute and ends up giving sub-par rides. My opinion differs from this guy in that he thinks that Kent was a great rider at one time. I don't think he was ever great. Me and him both agree that Kent does not ride great any more. He thinks its' more mental. I think it's physical and mental. I don't think he ever had the physical ability of guys like Stevens, McCarron, Bailey, etc.

Fair enough! And what he said I would agree with hands down. As far as riding well, he is just much more inconsistent now. He does try to ride other horses too much at times. At times it works incredibly well (see ticker tape in the american derby) and at times it fails miserably when it is unnecessary.

He is riding better than he has since 2001 right now. He just isnt getting the top mounts again yet. His ROI right now is off the charts at Saratoga. As for physical ability, you mention bailey and he has much more natural ability than Biailey did. Bailey would be the first to tell you that he wasnt that gifted naturally and that most of his success came through hard work. Kent is about as natural and instinctive as they come.

Either way, its been fun. Thanks for the feedback.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Fair enough! And what he said I would agree with hands down. As far as riding well, he is just much more inconsistent now. He does try to ride other horses too much at times. At times it works incredibly well (see ticker tape in the american derby) and at times it fails miserably when it is unnecessary.

He is riding better than he has since 2001 right now. He just isnt getting the top mounts again yet. His ROI right now is off the charts at Saratoga. As for physical ability, you mention bailey and he has much more natural ability than Biailey did. Bailey would be the first to tell you that he wasnt that gifted naturally and that most of his success came through hard work. Kent is about as natural and instinctive as they come.

Either way, its been fun. Thanks for the feedback.

I'll talk to the other guys in the next couple of days and tell you what they say. They've been in NY for the last few days for the yearling sale. I'll talk to them when they get back.