Chop Chop moves tack to SoCal

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, you need to learn how to read before you correct anyone else's "facts". Gryder is in the top ten LOL

Look at the arrogance of this guy.

Wow. Gryder is in tenth place and Arroyo is in twelfth. I fail to see how that makes these guys front and center in SoCal. Especially with the field sizes.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Look at the arrogance of this guy.

Wow. Gryder is in tenth place and Arroyo is in twelfth. I fail to see how that makes these guys front and center in SoCal. Especially with the field sizes.

Okay, how about Michael Baze then? He wasnt even a third rate east coast jockey and he is also in the top ten in the west. Jon Court? he wasnt even in the top five in kentucky and he is in the top ten in So cal these days.

When i say "front and center" I mean they ride multiple mounts on a dailly basis. Gryder has 67 mounts so far in the del mar meet.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Okay, how about Michael Baze then? He wasnt even a third rate east coast jockey and he is also in the top ten in the west. Jon Court? he wasnt even in the top five in kentucky and he is in the top ten in So cal these days.

He's young and improving every day.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

When i say "front and center" I mean they ride multiple mounts on a dailly basis. Gryder has 67 mounts so far in the del mar meet.

Isn't your argument pro-east coast? Then why would you backpedal and say front and center is how many mounts you get, not win? Seriously you don't have to win an argument everytime. You can admit you're wrong from time to time.

Gryder is having an absolutely horrible meet at Del Mar. He's winning at about an 8% clip in a depleted jockey colony.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

He's young and improving every day.



Isn't your argument pro-east coast? Then why would you backpedal and say front and center is how many mounts you get, not win? Seriously you don't have to win an argument everytime. You can admit you're wrong from time to time.

Gryder is having an absolutely horrible meet at Del Mar. He's winning at about an 8% clip in a depleted jockey colony.

How does me saying that come away from what i originally said? Gryder won at a 10% clip at Santa Anita this spring as well and he did so with over 300 mounts. That is doing much better than he did out east.

What is their to admit? Do you even have a point?

Originally Posted by dalakhani

How does me saying that come away from what i originally said? Gryder won at a 10% clip at Santa Anita this spring as well and he did so with over 300 mounts. That is doing much better than he did out east.

What is their to admit? Do you even have a point?

Yeah I have a point.

About Gryder...

Between 1998 and 2001, he won four riding titles at Aqueduct, three of them at the inner-track meets. In 1998-’99, he took the title with 53 wins despite missing the last six weeks of the meet due to injuries from a spill. He repeated in the 1999-2000 meet with 94 wins, 32 more than his nearest competitor.

I can't find any stats for him at Belmont and Saratoga but it seems to me like Gryder was one of the top 10 jocks in New York and now is about 10th in California. I'm going to be fair about this and call it a wash.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yeah I have a point.

About Gryder...

Between 1998 and 2001, he won four riding titles at Aqueduct, three of them at the inner-track meets. In 1998-’99, he took the title with 53 wins despite missing the last six weeks of the meet due to injuries from a spill. He repeated in the 1999-2000 meet with 94 wins, 32 more than his nearest competitor.

I can't find any stats for him at Belmont and Saratoga but it seems to me like Gryder was one of the top 10 jocks in New York and now is about 10th in California. I'm going to be fair about this and call it a wash.

Now there are some misleading stats. If you know anything about NY racing, all of the good jocks are down in gulfstream during the "frozen dirt" meeting at Aqueduct. When they open the big track, half of them are travelling between gulfstream, ny and kentucky.

Winning a Frozen Track meet in NY is akin to winning the riding title at Fairplex. Arroyo has also won a couple of titles there.

Originally Posted by dalakhani

Now there are some misleading stats. If you know anything about NY racing, all of the good jocks are down in gulfstream during the "frozen dirt" meeting at Aqueduct. When they open the big track, half of them are travelling between gulfstream, ny and kentucky.

Winning a Frozen Track meet in NY is akin to winning the riding title at Fairplex. Arroyo has also won a couple of titles there.

Then throw out the Hollywood meet in California which most of the top jocks in Cali cut back their mounts. Gryder still finished 10th.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Yeah I have a point.

About Gryder...

Between 1998 and 2001, he won four riding titles at Aqueduct, three of them at the inner-track meets. In 1998-’99, he took the title with 53 wins despite missing the last six weeks of the meet due to injuries from a spill. He repeated in the 1999-2000 meet with 94 wins, 32 more than his nearest competitor.

I can't find any stats for him at Belmont and Saratoga but it seems to me like Gryder was one of the top 10 jocks in New York and now is about 10th in California. I'm going to be fair about this and call it a wash.

During the period when Gryder was doing really well in New York, he did well at the big meets too. I don't know if he ever was leading rider at Belmont but he definitely came in the top 5 a few times. I think he even did better than that. I think he finished 2nd or 3rd a few times.

[Gander]

To say that Bailey and JV are the only two that could have done well out there is a ridiculous claim. They wanted Bejarano to come out for the longest time. Castellano would do extremely well. You dont think Prado would do well? Lets not be silly.

I agree totally. Castellano and Prado could ride anywhere and do well. Bejarano, I am not so convinced he is as great as everyone else thinks but he could surely hold his own in Southern California if guys like Baze, Cohen and Court can be in the top 10.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Gander

To say that Bailey and JV are the only two that could have done well out there is a ridiculous claim. They wanted Bejarano to come out for the longest time. Castellano would do extremely well. You dont think Prado would do well? Lets not be silly.

I agree totally. Castellano and Prado could ride anywhere and do well. Bejarano, I am not so convinced he is as great as everyone else thinks but he could surely hold his own in Southern California if guys like Baze, Cohen and Court can be in the top 10.

I agree with you guys about Jon Court. He is nothing special. He's certainly not a top rider. But neither are most of the guys in New York. I've seen plenty of guys over the years that were considered top riders back East and a lot of these guys couldn't ride at all. Dating back to the early 1980s, I saw so many of these guys come out here and I couldn't belive how bad they were. I was shocked that these guys were so successful back East. A couple of guys that come to mind are Jeff Fell and Randy Romero. Mike Smith is certainly a much better rider than Fell or Romero, but Smith is not in the league of Stevens, McCarron, Delahoussaye, P Val, Pincay, Espinoza, etc. Yet I think Mike Smith was the leading rider in New York for a while back in the 1990s. Chavez was the leading rider back there for a while. Typically the 7th or 8th best jockey out here is better than the leading rider back there. It was like that for over 15 years. You would have guys like Chavez leading the standings back there, yet he wouldn't have even been in the top 10 out west. It's finally starting to change, but just because a guy is a top rider back there, it doesn't make him a great jockey. That guy Ramon Dominguez looks terrible coming down the stretch. He can't even ride and whip a horse at the same time. He doesn't exactly look athletic out there.

[dalakhani]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

I agree with you guys about Jon Court. He is nothing special. He's certainly not a top rider. But neither are most of the guys in New York. I've seen plenty of guys over the years that were considered top riders back East and a lot of these guys couldn't ride at all. Dating back to the early 1980s, I saw so many of these guys come out here and I couldn't belive how bad they were. I was shocked that these guys were so successful back East. A couple of guys that come to mind are Jeff Fell and Randy Romero. Mike Smith is certainly a much better rider than Fell or Romero, but Smith is not in the league of Stevens, McCarron, Delahoussaye, P Val, Pincay, Espinoza, etc. Yet I think Mike Smith was the leading rider in New York for a while back in the 1990s. Chavez was the leading rider back there for a while. Typically the 7th or 8th best jockey out here is better than the leading rider back there. It was like that for over 15 years. You would have guys like Chavez leading the standings back there, yet he wouldn't have even been in the top 10 out west. It's finally starting to change, but just because a guy is a top rider back there, it doesn't make him a great jockey. That guy Ramon Dominguez looks terrible coming down the stretch. He can't even ride and whip a horse at the same time. He doesn't exactly look athletic out there.

I agree with you that the west coast use to have by far a better colony. I have always been a fan of west coast racing. Eddie D is probably my favorite jockey of all time and i dont think anyone can argue that the lineup in So cal in the 90's at times was the greatest ever assembled. Remember- Kent D won a few riding titles with that lineup in tact.

Times have changed. So Cal racing isnt what it use to be and the riders follow the money and the fast horses. That happens to be out east for the most part these days.