Big Brown has Quarter Crack

The Indomitable DrugS · #1 05-25-2008, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Except when you look at AP Indy, Kingmambo, Smart Strike, Giants causeway, Seeking the gold, Awesome Again, El Prado and Dynaformer. Or most of the top proven sires in the US outside of Storm Cat, Unbridled Song and Distorted humor.

Plus your logic may be flawed as many of those types could have been ve
ry successful as milers especially Easy Goer and the Bid. There just isnt any reason to do so if you could win the bigger races going longer.

Easy Goer and The Bid weren't early speed sprinter/milers...that wasn't their best game.

I hope you aren't serious with the stallions you mentioned. They are all royally bred and were oustanding race horses.

* A. P. Indy is a half to Summer Squall and Honor Grades

* Kingmambo is out of Miesque

* Smart Strike is a Mr. Prospector half to hall of famer Dance Smartly

* Giant's Causeway is a Storm Cat out of a dam that ran a 120 Beyer

* Seeking The Gold is a half to Grade 1 winner from a great Phipps family

* Awesome Again is a half to champion Macho Uno from a super lightly raced race mare

* El Prado's dam won the 1K Guineas and he has many accomplish sibs

* Dynaformer's dam is a Grade 1 winning half to Darby Creek Road

My opinion was that if you take two horses who's pedigree and race record are similar in terms of quality and accomplishment - the one with the sharper early speed is significantly more likely to be a successful stallion than the closing sprinter or stalking distance horse type.

However, as long as 95% of the Grade 1 races are run between 7-to-12 furlongs - those royally bred stallions with great race records and outstanding books are going to always be the highest profile stallions.

Put It Back moves up his mares way more than most of those stallions you mentioned - but who wants to breed a good mare to a modestly bred one way sprinter who doesn't throw distance horses?

Cannon Shell · #2 05-26-2008, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Easy Goer and The Bid weren't early speed sprinter/milers...that wasn't their best game.

I hope you aren't serious with the stallions you mentioned. They are all royally bred and were oustanding race horses.

* A. P. Indy is a half to Summer Squall and Honor Grades

* Kingmambo is out of Miesque

* Smart Strike is a Mr. Prospector half to hall of famer Dance Smartly

* Giant's Causeway is a Storm Cat out of a dam that ran a 120 Beyer

* Seeking The Gold is a half to Grade 1 winner from a great Phipps family

* Awesome Again is a half to champion Macho Uno from a super lightly raced race mare

* El Prado's dam won the 1K Guineas and he has many accomplish sibs

* Dynaformer's dam is a Grade 1 winning half to Darby Creek Road

My opinion was that if you take two horses who's pedigree and race record are similar in terms of quality and accomplishment - the one with the sharper early speed is significantly more likely to be a successful stallion than the closing sprinter or stalking distance horse type.

However, as long as 95% of the Grade 1 races are run between 7-to-12 furlongs - those royally bred stallions with great race records and outstanding books are going to always be the highest profile stallions.

Put It Back moves up his mares way more than most of those stallions you mentioned - but who wants to breed a good mare to a modestly bred one way sprinter who doesn't throw distance horses?

I know what their credentials are. But you said that Brilliant Speed was the number 1 stallion making quaity and i was just giving examples to the contrary. Many examples by the way.

Easy goer looked pretty good in the Gotham going a mile

The Indomitable DrugS · #3 05-27-2008, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I know what their credentials are. But you said that Brilliant Speed was the number 1 stallion making quaity and i was just giving examples to the contrary. Many examples by the way.

The quality and depth of the mares you get bred to mean WAY more than anything else.

I'm talking all things being equal - brilliant early speed is tops at seperating.

If you take a cheap speed career claimer with no pedigree and breed him to a bunch of mares who are worth only the meet on their bones - you aren't getting much.

If you take a slowpoke like Jazil and breed him to an excellent band of MANY mares - he will disapoint in a big way I believe - but you'll get some runners.

Cannon Shell · #4 05-27-2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The quality and depth of the mares you get bred to mean WAY more than anything else.

I'm talking all things being equal - brilliant speed is tops at seperating.

If you take a cheap speed career claimer with no pedigree and breed him to a bunch of mares who are worth only the meet on their bones - you aren't getting much.

If you take a slowpoke like Jazil and breed him to an excellent band of MANY mares - he will disapoint in a big way I believe - but you'll get some runners.

Jazil was very speedy

The Indomitable DrugS · #5 05-27-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Jazil was very speedy

I never really thought about it.

You might be right

Cannon Shell · #6 05-27-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

I never really thought about it.

You might be right

or not...maybe we should take a poll?

The Indomitable DrugS · #7 05-27-2008, 12:26 AM

I think so.

Cannon Shell · #8 05-26-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

Easy Goer and The Bid weren't early speed sprinter/milers...that wasn't their best game.

I hope you aren't serious with the stallions you mentioned. They are all royally bred and were oustanding race horses.

* A. P. Indy is a half to Summer Squall and Honor Grades

* Kingmambo is out of Miesque

* Smart Strike is a Mr. Prospector half to hall of famer Dance Smartly

* Giant's Causeway is a Storm Cat out of a dam that ran a 120 Beyer

* Seeking The Gold is a half to Grade 1 winner from a great Phipps family

* Awesome Again is a half to champion Macho Uno from a super lightly raced race mare

* El Prado's dam won the 1K Guineas and he has many accomplish sibs

* Dynaformer's dam is a Grade 1 winning half to Darby Creek Road

My opinion was that if you take two horses who's pedigree and race record are similar in terms of quality and accomplishment - the one with the sharper early speed is significantly more likely to be a successful stallion than the closing sprinter or stalking distance horse type.

However, as long as 95% of the Grade 1 races are run between 7-to-12 furlongs - those royally bred stallions with great race records and outstanding books are going to always be the highest profile stallions.

Put It Back moves up his mares way more than most of those stallions you mentioned - but who wants to breed a good mare to a modestly bred one way sprinter who doesn't throw distance horses?

and that moving up the mares stats are crap by the way. They are a very flawed statistic

cowgirlintexas · #9 05-26-2008, 07:47 AM

This thread has gone Wayyyyy off base of the original subject.. Can we retire it now??

miraja2 · #10 05-26-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowgirlintexas

This thread has gone Wayyyyy off base of the original subject.. Can we retire it now??

We apologize.
I hope the people that wanted the thread to ONLY be about Big Brown (and of course, Casino Drive) didn't get their feelings hurt that some of us started discussing something else.
Hopefully the hundreds of Big Brown/Casino Drive threads they'll start today will assuage their anger.

cowgirlintexas · #11 05-26-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miraja2

We apologize.
I hope the people that wanted the thread to ONLY be about Big Brown (and of course, Casino Drive) didn't get their feelings hurt that some of us started discussing something else.
Hopefully the hundreds of Big Brown/Casino Drive threads they'll start today will assuage their anger.

I'm neither hurt nor angry..