Big Brown has Quarter Crack

King Glorious · #1 05-25-2008, 09:50 AM

Anyone that doesn't believe that people who have entered into a $50 million contract to stand a horse next year have no say in what the current owners do with the horse this year are either naive or stupid. Or both.

tiggerv · #2 05-25-2008, 09:51 AM

Glad I got to see his last race

Cannon Shell · #3 05-25-2008, 10:09 AM

I first heard about this last night but simply didn't know if it was true so i didn't post.

First of all a quarter crack can be a real issue or it can be a minor issue depending on it's location, including which foot and the severity of the crack.
The toughest thing right now is how much training he has to miss as opposed to the actual injury. Again depending on where it is located you can train in a bar shoe and do just fine. A lot of times the biggest problem is an abcess developing underneath where the patch is located. Proper drainage of the area is critical and sometimes that takes some time, sometimes not.

Secondly, the horse's "value" to IEAH is set already. It can not go up or down because they have already have sold the breeding rights. I dont understand why people dont seem to get that. His stud fee is also pretty much set because it is based more on the exposure the farm has as opposed to what the horse does on the track from now on. If he were to win the Belmont, travers, and BC Classic they may be able to get a little more but if he gets beat in the Belmont they will still be looking for 100k. There may be a clause that the farm pays less if the horse gets beat but there may also be a clause that says the farm pays less if the horse doesnt compete in the Belmont as well.

mclem10011 · #4 05-25-2008, 10:16 AM

For breaking down the quarter crack and how to treat it. I wasn't totally sure about all that was involved it's nice to have expert information.

Strategic Mission · #5 05-25-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I first heard about this last night but simply didn't know if it was true so i didn't post.

First of all a quarter crack can be a real issue or it can be a minor issue depending on it's location, including which foot and the severity of the crack.
The toughest thing right now is how much training he has to miss as opposed to the actual injury. Again depending on where it is located you can train in a bar shoe and do just fine. A lot of times the biggest problem is an abcess developing underneath where the patch is located. Proper drainage of the area is critical and sometimes that takes some time, sometimes not.

Secondly, the horse's "value" to IEAH is set already. It can not go up or down because they have already have sold the breeding rights. I dont understand why people dont seem to get that. His stud fee is also pretty much set because it is based more on the exposure the farm has as opposed to what the horse does on the track from now on. If he were to win the Belmont, travers, and BC Classic they may be able to get a little more but if he gets beat in the Belmont they will still be looking for 100k. There may be a clause that the farm pays less if the horse gets beat but there may also be a clause that says the farm pays less if the horse doesnt compete in the Belmont as well.

You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.

justindew · #6 05-25-2008, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strategic Mission

You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.

AP Indy?

Fusaichi Pegasus?

King Glorious · #7 05-25-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

AP Indy?

Fusaichi Pegasus?

AP Indy raced throughout the rest of the year and won the BC Classic at the end of it. FuPeg also raced through the end of the year, finishing in the BC Classic.

justindew · #8 05-25-2008, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

AP Indy raced throughout the rest of the year and won the BC Classic at the end of it. FuPeg also raced through the end of the year, finishing in the BC Classic.

Yeah, I probably should have read all the posts. My bad.

Carry on.

Cajungator26 · #9 05-25-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strategic Mission

You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.

What makes you so certain that people want to breed to a Mineshaft? Mineshaft has hardly been considered a success at stud so far.

#10 05-25-2008, 10:27 AM

This thread is going to be fantastic.

Strategic Mission · #11 05-25-2008, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

What makes you so certain that people want to breed to a Mineshaft? Mineshaft has hardly been considered a success at stud so far.

Mineshaft was #12 on the second crop list and has put two horses into the TC series this year.

Casino Drive has a pretty flawless pedigree with a mother that has produced 2 or maybe 3 consecutive belmont winners. He would have to turn out to be a great horse himself, but nobody would look at his pedigree and question it.

Pedigree Ann · #12 05-25-2008, 10:58 AM

Buckpasser had a problem with quarter cracks - he missed the entire Triple Crown while his hoof grew out after having one - but he still managed to win 25 of 31 races over 3 seasons of racing, from 2 to 4.

I copied this from a vet report:

"Quarter cracks are a common cause of foot lameness and/or decreased athletic performance in race and sport horses. They typically originate at the coronary band and continue distally. They are full thickness, extending into the dermis of the hoof, which leads to instability, inflammation and/or infection. Quarter cracks are painful due to infection and/or the result of instability caused by movement of the hoof wall posterior to the crack. The vertical movement of the heel bulb on the affected side further complicates this instability. Causes of quarter cracks may include trauma to the coronary band; preexisting damage to the corium from infection; abnormal hoof conformation - especially the long toe underrun heel; focal foot imbalances; short shoes; or an abnormal landing pattern when the foot strikes the ground."

I see both genetic and environmental factors mentioned as possible causes.

Cannon Shell · #13 05-25-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cajungator26

What makes you so certain that people want to breed to a Mineshaft? Mineshaft has hardly been considered a success at stud so far.

Mineshaft also had bad feet, btw.

SCUDSBROTHER · #14 05-25-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Mineshaft also had bad feet, btw.

Yeah, but you can name horses stuff like:

Mein SHAFT

JOHN SHAFT

This Cat SHAFT

SHAFT Can Yadigit

POWER SHAFT

Cannon Shell · #15 05-25-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strategic Mission

You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.

Thanks Mr. Tesio

hoovesupsideyourhead · #16 05-25-2008, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strategic Mission

You would have to know the deal to make those statements. IEAH might still own a big chunk of the horse after he retires. If he loses to Casino Drive, good luck getting $100K with Curlin, Casino Drive, Street Sense, Hard Spun, and a few others new to the market.

If this horse lost this race, combined with his soundness issues, he would be nothing special. People want to breed to a TC winner, not an unsound horse that couldn't even get through the TC.

id take bb over a hard spun baby

zippyneedsawin · #17 05-25-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I first heard about this last night but simply didn't know if it was true so i didn't post.

First of all a quarter crack can be a real issue or it can be a minor issue depending on it's location, including which foot and the severity of the crack.
The toughest thing right now is how much training he has to miss as opposed to the actual injury. Again depending on where it is located you can train in a bar shoe and do just fine. A lot of times the biggest problem is an abcess developing underneath where the patch is located. Proper drainage of the area is critical and sometimes that takes some time, sometimes not.

Secondly, the horse's "value" to IEAH is set already. It can not go up or down because they have already have sold the breeding rights. I dont understand why people dont seem to get that. His stud fee is also pretty much set because it is based more on the exposure the farm has as opposed to what the horse does on the track from now on. If he were to win the Belmont, travers, and BC Classic they may be able to get a little more but if he gets beat in the Belmont they will still be looking for 100k. There may be a clause that the farm pays less if the horse gets beat but there may also be a clause that says the farm pays less if the horse doesnt compete in the Belmont as well.

Missing some training probably isn't that big of a deal for this horse at this point though, is it?

Cannon Shell · #18 05-25-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Missing some training probably isn't that big of a deal for this horse at this point though, is it?

Not as big of deal because he just ran twice but not exactly ideal. It may be an easy thing to take care of and wind up being a non issue.

Danzig · #19 05-25-2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zippyneedsawin

Missing some training probably isn't that big of a deal for this horse at this point though, is it?

'if everything is good, the colt will on the track for full training by Thursday.' he will go a week without going to the track. i would think that would be an issue.

Danzig · #20 05-25-2008, 01:13 PM

'Dutrow said he noticed a small spot on the colt's foot Friday afternoon and notified hoof lameness specialist Ian McKinlay, who treated it. By Saturday, it had turned into a slight quarter crack, five-eighths of an inch long. McKinlay applied iodine solution and said he’s confident it is very minor. '

chuck, the guy treats it and then it cracks...calling for more treatment. guy says it's minor.
what do you think?